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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that if you are committed enough to decide to have children....

611 replies

Oakenbeach · 27/04/2019 09:29

....you should also be committed enough to each other to get married (assuming that you don’t have any objections to marriage in principle), and that it makes no sense at all for couples to plan to have children (and I stress ‘plan’) before deciding whether to get married.

OP posts:

englishdictionary · 27/04/2019 15:25

Hysterical English, don’t find your lack of comprehension re why bastard and illegitimate are so offensive quite so funn

I don't know what you mean.

The word is surname. That's all.

I didn't realise that people talking about the use and history of the word bastard was offensive.

Lack of comprehension is just my own ignorance, so I'm not sure why you say you don't find it funny, it's my own personal lack, and you are correct, it's not funny.

It's not connected to the word surname either though.

snop · 27/04/2019 15:26

I strongly disagree op, as others have said not everyone needs the financial security of marriage. I've never wanted to get married tbh even though I love dp . What really is the point if we are both financially independent. And it doesn't bother us either way

Planetian · 27/04/2019 15:30

If you are committed enough to plan to have children together, you should be committed enough to get married why though? If people are happy in their relationships and their children are loved and secure why “should” they have to do anything? Marriage isn’t the only valid relationship you know.

Are you a “traditionalist” and therefore it makes you uncomfortable when people don’t conform? That’s the only reason I can fathom why it would bother you. In which case YABU and you should attempt to open your mind OP.

BertrandRussell · 27/04/2019 15:35

“Whereas I find it extremely galling that other women cannot respect my choice as to what name I gave my child.”
Why should I respect your decision when I think it is wrong?

Meandmetoo · 27/04/2019 15:36

"I didn't realise that people talking about the use and history of the word bastard was offensive. "

Oh come now,don't be so coy with faux wide eyed innocence, the pp wasn't discussing the use of the words, she/he was outright saying kids of unmarried parents are bastards/illegitimate/love child.

InceyWinceyette · 27/04/2019 15:37

“Legally there is a difference. Irrespective of terminology.l

How? How does a child itself have a different legal status? Please link to the section on the government website that gives a child a different legal status depending on whether it’s parents are married.

There are different rights and responsibilities that parents have depending on marriage, e.g some are automatic on marriage but otherwise depend on status on birth certificate etc, but these all pertain to the status of the parent, not the child. The law in inheriting British Citizenship changed in 2006 so that unmarried fathers can pass on citizenship, for example.

englishdictionary · 27/04/2019 15:43

Oh come now,don't be so coy with faux wide eyed innocence, the pp wasn't discussing the use of the words, she/he was outright saying kids of unmarried parents are bastards/illegitimate/love child

I wasn't saying that at all. I said that the comments should remain as they were simply part of discussion about the history of the word.

Slomi · 27/04/2019 15:44

@BertrandRussell "Why should I respect your decision when I think it is wrong?"

It doesn't effect you.
It's none of your business
Me giving my daughter her father's name is not setting back feminism 20 years. People judging women for their decisions and not trusting them to know what is best in their own set of circumstances does that.

I wouldn't have a child in my 40's because I don't want to be raising a teenager and facing into retirement. I moved to the countryside as I didn't want my child growing up in the city. I don't go around judging people who do differently because they are suiting their circumstances. My decision isn't "wrong" it's just different to yours.

Alsohuman · 27/04/2019 15:48

Interestingly someone I know in their mid 20s who was married last year was quite outspoken that she didn’t want her children to be bastards like her. And yes, that was the word she used.

BertrandRussell · 27/04/2019 15:48

I accept that women make anti feminist decisions. I do not have to respect those decisions simply because they are made by a woman.

BertrandRussell · 27/04/2019 15:49

“Interestingly someone I know in their mid 20s who was married last year was quite outspoken that she didn’t want her children to be bastards like her. And yes, that was the word she used.”

Did she say why?

Alsohuman · 27/04/2019 15:52

I didn’t ask. To be honest, I was quite shocked.

englishdictionary · 27/04/2019 15:54

How? How does a child itself have a different legal status?

I didn't say this.

I said legally there is a difference based on the parents marital status. Which is why there is the option to re register the child's birth to make the a 'child of the marriage'

I wasn't being offensive. It's just a fact.

To think that if you are committed enough to decide to have children....

SandyY2K · 27/04/2019 15:57

I agree with you OP. When I hear people saying "we're not ready to get married" but they have kids and a house.... I wonder what not ready means.

So I asked someone to explain it to me.

Her response was it's a big step, big commitment to say you'll be with one person for the rest of your life.

So I said don't you think children are a much bigger commitment.... she didn't get it.

Each to their own...but when a n unmarried woman has been a SAHM and is left high and dry... with a pittance of child support... I think she's been incredibly unwise to say the least.

If both parties are happy to be unmarried and have children...then that's fine .... but I do get irritated with ppl who say "it's just a piece of paper" and "I don't need a bit of paper to prove my love"

Because they aren't married, they dismiss marriage as though it's a joke.

I read a recent comment where a poster said marriage is antiquated and outdated. I totally disagree, but my religion and upbringing make marriage important to me.

FuzzyShadowChatter · 27/04/2019 15:59

I think if your own old enough to plan and decide to have a child, you're old enough to weigh the risks and benefits and discuss the ways to protect yourself and your child and put the best options into place, though I agree with the previous poster that the basic legal differences marriage brings and maybe other options people use should be part of relationship education in schools. Marriage does offer legal protection and benefits with responsibilities that are valuable to many, there are other options which have risks and benefits as well.

While (parts of?) the UK make it easy to change names legally, socially there is a lot of pressure to have a good enough reason to change one's name and when other countries are involved it can take a lot of time and hoop jumping to get through to get everything in that name, years and a lot of money into it myself, and this can leave people stuck with names that bring a lot of pain.

Slomi · 27/04/2019 15:59

@BertrandRussell

I accept that women make anti feminist decisions. I do not have to respect those decisions simply because they are made by a woman.

I am a strong feminist actually, I was an active campaigner during the Repeal the 8th campaign here in Ireland and had my DP supporting me all the way. I've no doubt that I will raise a strong, independent daughter who happens to have her father's surname. I find it laughable that you consider yourself a feminist if you think its acceptable to go round telling women that their choices are "wrong" if you don't agree with them.

Gwenhwyfar · 27/04/2019 16:00

"What is a non career job?"

OK, I missed out the hyphen. A non-career job is a job that is not part of a career. It's what at least 50% of the population have.
Not sure if you're tacking the mick or not here.

BertrandRussell · 27/04/2019 16:06

So- how is giving a child her father’s name a feminist decision? Feminists make non or anti feminist decisions all the time- that’s life- but they must make them in the full knowledge that’s what they are doing and why.

Aethelthryth · 27/04/2019 16:08

YANBU
Regardless of the question of financial security, anyone who intends to have children, or who stops taking steps to avoid having children should try as hard as they can to ensure that those children will have a stable family. Marriage is a public commitment to try to do that. It may not work out; but at least everyone sets out with the intention to try.
Anyone who has children without seeking that commitment from the other parent is negligent.
This sin't a simply private matter. Unstable families cause huge problems for thousands of children and we all end up paying the financial and social price

Blackbi2d · 27/04/2019 16:09

A career is a job you have for a long period of time and can progress in. I’ve had minimum wage jobs and still progressed. You can have a shit job but still be working towards your career. I don’t buy that 50% of the population aren’t able to have a career. I fail to see how 2 married people within this 50% without a career are any security to each other just by being married.

Blackbi2d · 27/04/2019 16:12

And English there is no difference in legal status as regards the child itself hence the term illegitimate being null and void( law changed in 1920s) as well as offensive.

Blackbi2d · 27/04/2019 16:14

Tosh Aethel plenty of uncommitted partners are bullied into married and plenty of committed couples don’t marry.

BertrandRussell · 27/04/2019 16:15

We’ve been together for longer than any of the married couples we know.......

VladmirsPoutine · 27/04/2019 16:18

Marriage isn't even bullet-proof. If I could impart any lasting wisdom to young women today is this: Keep yourself financially sound and independent.

Alsohuman · 27/04/2019 16:19

And your point is?

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