To think that if you are committed enough to decide to have children....

[Oakenbeach]

....you should also be committed enough to each other to get married (assuming that you don’t have any objections to marriage in principle), and that it makes no sense at all for couples to plan to have children (and I stress ‘plan’) before deciding whether to get married.

“But 'Bastard' actually means a child born to parents who are not married. An illegitimate child. Born 'out of wedlock'. A love child, if you prefer!”

Or, ‘child’.

Why in earth would anyone categorise a child based on the marital stays of the parents? Let alone use language like “illegitimate” or stupid euphemisms. Are the children of marrieds not loved?

What counts (if and when) is who has parental responsibility and who is required to support the child financially.

Sorry that post was in response to people asking me why not change it

“I’ve reported the bastards post.“

Oh I do hope they don’t delete it. I think posts like that should stand. Why allow posters to wriggle out by deletion?

I’ve reported the bastards post.

Why? It's all part of a civilised discussion

Nope. Having a child is a commitment to the child, not always to the other partner of that child.

Not being married to or owning a property with my ex partner made it 100x easier to get away from him via refuge. There were no legal ties.

I had more house equity. I earn more than my child’s father. We share and have always shared all parenting and household responsibilities. My career has not suffered more than his due to parenting. We both have (equally pathetic) pensions.

How does marriage protect me?

*other parent, not partner

Why in earth would anyone categorise a child based on the marital stays of the parents?

Legally there is a difference. Irrespective of terminology.

I find it highly offensive re reference to my children and don’t want it there. They aren’t bastards( a derogatory word often used as a swear word) or illegitimate.

They don’t need authorisation to exit and have as much right to be on this planet as any other child.

There is a reason these terms aren’t used any more. They are derogatory and offensive.

I was more than happy to give my DC’s my DP’s last name. My own surname is stupid and I’ve always hated it. I love that my kids have a ‘nice’ surname. I might even change my own by deedpoll.

Gwen if the breadwinner can’t afford the mortgage and rent it will need to be sold or go back to the bank. If it is sold the proceeds from half a 3 bed semi if there is equity would be hard to find housing on if you have several children and zero career.

Own money,career and property is surely what should be encouraged for security. Not a wedding.

They don’t need authorisation to exit and have as much right to be on this planet as any other child.

Not sure any of this was said.

Yep. The usual crop of special “women’s last name” issues. Really pisses me off. At least own why you give your children their father’s name.

"I’ve reported the bastards post.

Why? It's all part of a civilised discussion"

There's nothing civilised in using known derogatory terms to describe children. Children

However, I also think that post should stand. No harm in posters knowing exactly the sort of person they are debating with (can't argue with stupid etc etc)

Illegitimate means a person who is illegitimate by birth, not authorised.

Highly offensive. There is a reason it isn’t used any more.

Yep. The usual crop of special “women’s last name” issues. Really pisses me off. At least own why you give your children their father’s name

Absolutely amazing why so few men have dumb, silly, offensive, bad-memory inducing last names that they can't possibly give to their progeny.

Why is that an issue specific to unmarried mothers?Quiz married mothers. Children don’t have to have a father’s sir-name. It can be hyphenated,mums, dads. Maybe many married mothers want the same name as their children, really of no concern to me ditto choice of first names.Frankly I would never change my own name but my own kids got the nicest name.Our names would be ridiculous hyphenated and dp’s is def nicer. Twas a no brainier really,

@BertrandRussell Yep. The usual crop of special “women’s last name” issues. Really pisses me off. At least own why you give your children their father’s name.

What do you mean own it? And what difference does it make to you? Who cares if a women decides to give the children their father's name no matter what reason she has. Pissed off is a very strong reaction to something that has no effect on you at all. Such an odd thing to get worked up over.

@YetAnotherSpartacus Absolutely amazing why so few men have dumb, silly, offensive, bad-memory inducing last names that they can't possibly give to their progeny.

Wow. Such empathy. It's 100% true in my case. But yeah I should have given my baby my name just to make a point .

Children don’t have to have a father’s sir-name.

I'm finding this far too funny given how so many people view the father as the all important name giver, so almost a sir!

But no. It's SURNAME. SUR NAME.

“And what difference does it make to you? Who cares if a women decides to give the children their father's name no matter what reason she has.“

Because it’s all part of the awful patriarchal system where women are erased even though they do the lion’s share of the work around children. That’s why it pisses me off. Men claiming rights but not taking responsibility.

Because it’s all part of the awful patriarchal system where women are erased even though they do the lion’s share of the work around children. That’s why it pisses me off. Men claiming rights but not taking responsibility.

Whereas I find it extremely galling that other women cannot respect my choice as to what name I gave my child. It's patronising, as though I cannot make an informed decision by myself. It's also nobody else's business but mine and my partner. If my partner didn't take responsibility that's a whole other issue.

"Own money,career and property is surely what should be encouraged for security."

At least half of people have to do non-career jobs! Not everyone can have a career or own a property.

Hysterical English, don’t find your lack of comprehension re why bastard and illegitimate are so offensive quite so funny.

What is a non career job?