In thinking DD is too young to give up work to stay at home

[MrsJenB]

Firstly to make it clear this is not being anti SAHM in fact I've been an SAHM since DD was born which she's saying makes me a hypocrite!

Bit of background DD is 24 and graduated from uni summer 2017. In her 1st year she met a man who was then in 3rd year and has been with him since, they got married in August. DD is now pregnant and has said she intends to give up work and not go back and they want to have a family of 3/4 kids going forward. Income isn't a problem for her as our son in law is a bit of a high flyer and in a high paying industry where he's already earning a lot and his earning potential is very high. DD is very junior in a very different kind of industry.

AIBU to still be a bit uncomfortable with her deciding to stop work at her age? She says I wouldn't be saying anything if she was 5 years older but they're ready so what's the difference. I get the feeling this is coming from son in law a bit though from some of what she's said such as him saying there's no point her working when his salary is mainly what they live on anyway and that hers doesn't make any difference anyway. That might well be true but smells a bit of calling it pocket money. DH isn't 100% on board but isn't really concerned either saying it's good she's passionate about being a mum and wanting a family. I think she's in for a bit of a shock when she realises it's more sleepless nights, changing stinky nappies and having to deal with all the responsibility all day especially with son in law working long hours and probably longer as his career progresses so not there a lot for support, not some "yummy mummy" lifestyle some of her social media posts make me think she expects. I don't think she realises how isolating it could be and how demanding even though I've told her and she says she knows. I think my DH doesn't realise either as he always worked quite long hours which maybe is why he isn't as concerned. And none of DD's friends are likely to have kids right now either so it could be even more of a challenge for her. Of course I'll support her whatever but AIBU to be worried and want her to think a bit more about the decisions?

Langrish

It's an interesting point, MY OH loves his job, and works for a small forward thinking company that offers flexible work arrangements past normal retirement age.
There are a few employees in their 70s who work only a couple of days a week doing development work.
The company does not want to lose their skills and the employees don't want to leave,

@MrsJenB you're going to have to take a different approach with her because she will not listen otherwise. 1) encourage her to set a percentage aside from the money that her husband gives her for a) family emergency fund, in case her husband loses his job, we are not exactly in 'strong and stable' times. b) a fund for herself, and she needs to keep building that up every month.

She should put them in different accounts and honestly not tell her husband about them. Assuming she has financial discipline, the pots should grow. Convince her to do it. Tell her you did it or something. Obviously give your DH/her dad the heads up what you're doing.

As time goes on, she will ultimately see that was left behind. But she may decide to start a business or something, so going into work may not be the best route for her. At least this way she can mitigate bad circumstances if they are ever to rear their head!

Sandy of course sending your kids to nursery 12 hours a day 5 days a week means you have a less strong bond than someone who spends all of their time with their kids. It’s the same as any bond - you need time together to build it. It’s not saying you don’t love them the same.

Sandy of course sending your kids to nursery 12 hours a day 5 days a week means you have a less strong bond than someone who spends all of their time with their kids.

what nonsense - children who attend nursery have just as strong bonds. there are always children/parents who have stronger/weaker bonds but you have that with sahm and working parents. apart from that - nurseries aren't open 12h anyways!

Speakout

My husband is 60 and at the absolute height of his professional skill. His organisation is in the early stages of developing its 10 year plan and he was delighted to be asked if he would consider remaining after retirement age, if only part time or working from home because his role is pivotal.
Many of the more successful companies/organisations are - finally - increasingly retaining older employees on a similar basis. It’s at last being recognised that too lose that experience and knowledge on an arbitrary age basis just doesn’t make sense.

Ageism - a whole other argument 😁

Well actually (referring to my previous post) she shouldn't keep secrets from her husband--not about money anyway. But I do think she should be financially educated about pension etc.. That way they can make an informed decision and her husband can work out if they really can afford NI contributions for her and well as a larger household.

@Frazzled - I don’t know why women pick tough caring careers.

My suspicion is - partly nature and partly nurture. In playgrounds I do notice boys interested in running around with bigger boys when some girls are interested in my toddler DS. I have tried to interest older ds into caring but he wants to throw things or poke things with sticks (he is homeschooled so hasn’t had stereotypes exposure in nursery - i think kids police gender stereotypes quite a bit in nursery. Friend’s daughter went from liking dinosaurs to frozen - not bad, just interesting).

@Langrish - do agree that SAHP can be v important and rewarding. But extra care does need to be taken to make the SAHP less vulnerable eg with extra assets in their name and work insurance for the working partner. SAHMs from the previous generation did so much unrecognised stuff - looking after relatives (eg elderly and kids who had lost a parent), housework, teaching children. It would be nice for this to be recognised by the tax/benefits system in some way. It is going to be more important as we have an aging population and the cost of care/care homes is significant.

Ps - the NI issue seems to be addressed in the link below. I think the non working parent has to claim child benefit (even if currently they do not get any/much money back) because then the year would count towards their NI contributions.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2016/11/new-parents-lose-278m-in-state-pension-payments-due-to-child-benefit-changes/

Namenic

One of the first and simplest things that families with one parent at home can do is make sure they use that partner’s tax allowance, suspect most probably don’t. It’s pretty simple to set up yourself or cheap to have an accountant do it for you.
Would also worry very much for the SAHP if there’s no formal arrangement in place. Not everyone wants to marry but they should at least enter into civil partnership before becoming financially dependent.

As I said, it’s not for everyone but we have found it rewarding and works for us.

Yes, you do need to continue to claim even if it’s then taken back by the tax system because of the working parent’s earning threshold. If you don’t want to take that route, you can also make straightforward NI payments into the system.

How do you use the other person’s tax allowance? I guess maybe in getting rental from a property?

I’m not entirely sure because an accountant did it 😁 it’s all perfectly above board! Involves a limited company I believe.

Thanks @Langrish - I probably best ask accountant as i’m not great with interpreting all the rules. Was just interested as I might want to switch to SAHM as finding my job v stressful.

Namenic

Did an accountancy module many moon’s ago: quickly discovered it was not for me 😂

@Redskyandrainbows67

Sandy of course sending your kids to nursery 12 hours a day 5 days a week means you have a less strong bond than someone who spends all of their time with their kids. It’s the same as any bond - you need time together to build it. It’s not saying you don’t love them the same.

Whilst I never did this (12 hours a day 5 days a week)... I don't agree with you.

It's the quality of time you spend with your child that matters and that quality time forms the bond.

A dad who works can equally have a good bond if he engages with his child every day..even though he is spending less time with them than the mother.

It's like the argument that breastfed babies have a closer bond...Rubbish. Even though I BF..I don't agree that it creates a closer bond and that a bottlefed baby is less bonded to their DM.

Being a SAHM..
putting your child in front of the TV while you chat on the phone or spend your time online doesn't help form a bond. So it's the quality of time.

I'm no less bonded to my DM, than a child who was home full time....and my DC are not less bonded to me than one who had a mother at home 24/7.

I look at my old childminder, who inferred that working mums were putting their careers ahead of their DC, never mind that we were paying her...she's not more bonded to her DC than mine are to me.

On my days off I sometimes see SAHM in the supermarket with their kids, at the end of their tether screaming at them... I don't see a great bond there, just frustration.

OP, I think you need to trust your daughter’s instincts. Wanting to stay with your baby is the most natural thing in the world. However, nothing is fixed in stone.

I was on the 11 plus “circuit” with my DD earlier this year and there was one very interesting talk from a head at a top London Girls” independent school. She said that the main skill we need to be teaching these days is adaptability. A levels are too rigid. These days, the average graduate will change jobs / career path NINE times in the course of their life. It’s not enough any more to train in a “profession” and expect to stick to one career path. Many jobs will become obsolete. Also, the typical 9-5 will become a thing if the past as more people are able to work from home or at times that fit around childcare. She expects that at least half her students will start up their own business at some point - probably in something nobody has even thought of yet. In other words, the rate of technological and social change over the coming decades will be unprecedented and young people need to be able to adapt.

There is nothing to stop your daughter doing other qualifications or a Masters while she’s at home.

I left work when I was 29, so a little older than her. I had spent a year travelling after uni and also had an MA and a few years experience under my belt, but I knew once the DC came along that that being with them was the most important to factor for me. It was irrelevant what anyone else thought I “should” be doing. You only live once. DH was if the same mindset. Yes his career has rocketed, but it’s hardly a competition and we all benefit from that lifestyle. Even if we split, I’d still be better off than if I’d been working all these years. Sometimes it just makes sense.

Now I’m looking to return to work on my own terms in my 40s. Why not? If your DD is having a baby now at 24 and wants to have several, there’s nothing whatsoever to stop her returning to work in her thirties. Maybe she’ll start up her own business? Maybe she’ll do relevant training during that time? The world can be her oyster basically.

Plus, she’ll only be 40 when her eldest is doing GCSEs and maybe 50 when they’ve all left home. She’ll have the energy to pursue whatever she wants then - it could be a whole new lease of life for her.

Good for her in that she has the confidence to trust her instincts. Good for her that she’s found a decent man who shares her outlook. Sounds like they’ll both be fine to me. I certainly have no regrets and, as I say, nothing is ever fixed in stone.

Ok I totally get your concerns. I don't think it's a great idea to be 100% reliant on somebody else.

I think I'd be advising her to at least try and do part-time, keeping her career open.

Being at home all day with children is hard work. It can also be lonely and expensive. Many baby groups cost a fortune. Where else do you meet other new mums other than baby groups.

In that case speakout I might need you to send me some tips.

Still the point about a second income stands. I put my fledgling career on hold to work p/t in family friendly roles, only for my marriage to break down when I was 40.

I had just set up my own business alongside my p/t role but in order to get a mortgage on my own had to give it up and find regular f/t work.

3 years down the the line I'm juggling the job, home, teenager and increasingly frail elderly parents and there's no light at the end of the tunnel on any front. I've never been able to afford a pension so that's an added worry.

If I'd followed my intended career path, or managed to establish my business before everything went tits up my life would be a hell of a lot easier.

I admit I am quite disgruntled and a bit cynical about it all at the moment.

None of the long-term SAHMs I know are boring or downtrodden! Quite the opposite!

Having DC changes you and over the years you have the opportunity to realise new skills and potentials you might have never known you had if you’d been on a fixed career path or generic job. For instance, I have a friend who started a successful online children’s clothing line. Another has founded a company that delivers personalised detox plans or diets to your door. Another friend is a psychotherapist and now charges £70 per hour to work when and as she likes. Another has written 5 novels which have been published across the world. Another has founded a well-known chain of cake shops. One has set up a boxercise gym. These are just a few examples of what mums can do in later life, that they might not have had the ideas, confidence or life experience to have attempted in their 20s.

My step-sister had one job before getting pg at 21. Part-time in Poundland.
She's got GCSEs.
She's now a very happy sahm of 3 at 27.
However, they're not married and I worry a bit about how she'd fare if they split up.
Also, getting into work when you've only worked pt before kids, will be very hard.

@FrazzledCareerWoman I love the 'genericSarah' nickname.. I think they should make cartoons about her to warn young girls of the perils.

@FrazzledCareerWoman
It has never been definitively proven that women's proposensity to adopt these roles are due to socialisation or biology. Personally I think it's a mix of both and how the two interact will be different for each woman hence some women will have absolutely no desire to be SAHPs and others like OP's DD will feel the desire very acutely. I also would like to remove the structural inequalities and unhelpful socialisation that undoubtedly exists, but I also would like a world where women's biology is considered as normal as man's and we aren't constantly being told that equality must mean that everyone acts like a man.

YANBU to worry or to suggest careful consideration (up to the point it becomes patronizing), but it's her choice and a fine choice it is too.

Time to get supportive and look forward to this wonderful new stage of your lives.

Totally agree Bumpity. It seems crazy to me that we accept hormonal effects on behaviour when it comes to adolescence, or the menstrual cycle or the menopause. But “maternal instinct” - nooo! We’re exactly the same as men, don’t you know.

As for this “genetic Sarah” thing. I’d be absolutely mortified if I’d brought up such a nasty, conceited twit of a girl who would assume to demean other women in this way. Urgh. I’d love to see where these girls who hold themselves in such high special regard end up in 20 years.