In thinking DD is too young to give up work to stay at home

[MrsJenB]

Firstly to make it clear this is not being anti SAHM in fact I've been an SAHM since DD was born which she's saying makes me a hypocrite!

Bit of background DD is 24 and graduated from uni summer 2017. In her 1st year she met a man who was then in 3rd year and has been with him since, they got married in August. DD is now pregnant and has said she intends to give up work and not go back and they want to have a family of 3/4 kids going forward. Income isn't a problem for her as our son in law is a bit of a high flyer and in a high paying industry where he's already earning a lot and his earning potential is very high. DD is very junior in a very different kind of industry.

AIBU to still be a bit uncomfortable with her deciding to stop work at her age? She says I wouldn't be saying anything if she was 5 years older but they're ready so what's the difference. I get the feeling this is coming from son in law a bit though from some of what she's said such as him saying there's no point her working when his salary is mainly what they live on anyway and that hers doesn't make any difference anyway. That might well be true but smells a bit of calling it pocket money. DH isn't 100% on board but isn't really concerned either saying it's good she's passionate about being a mum and wanting a family. I think she's in for a bit of a shock when she realises it's more sleepless nights, changing stinky nappies and having to deal with all the responsibility all day especially with son in law working long hours and probably longer as his career progresses so not there a lot for support, not some "yummy mummy" lifestyle some of her social media posts make me think she expects. I don't think she realises how isolating it could be and how demanding even though I've told her and she says she knows. I think my DH doesn't realise either as he always worked quite long hours which maybe is why he isn't as concerned. And none of DD's friends are likely to have kids right now either so it could be even more of a challenge for her. Of course I'll support her whatever but AIBU to be worried and want her to think a bit more about the decisions?

Apologies if I read your post incorrectly, by the way Frazzled, I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or not!

@Catchingbentcoppers yes i do and I said so! Genuinely wasn't being sarcastic or anything like that. It is unfortunately , hard to achieve for many.

*What if she became ill or died? What would the DH do? How would he pay for childcare or give up his job? Wouldn’t his lifestyle suffer enormously as well? How would he manage the home and children?

Well he would potentially have to cut down on his work hours, but he would be able to afford childcare as he's working. His lifestyle may suffer, but I hasten to bet not nearly as much as if this situation were reversed. He may also be able to take paid leave from work to sort things out, which is something the OP would be unable to do.

Don’t you see a value in mums at home?

Of course, and many others on the thread have also said it's great if a parent not just a mum can stay at home> However, for the OPS daughter this doesn't sound like a short term arrangement, it could be more than a decade before she finds herself in a position to go back to work. That's not a sensible decision to make at just 24 years old.

speakeasy I assume you are able to enjoy your free time and own small business because you are still happily married to a supportive and reasonably high earning husband?

Sadly there are no guarantees for anyone that this will be the case.

"In a world where so many babies get sent to daycare for 10 hours a day,it's wonderful to know there are still mothers who cherish that bonding time with their children." @Mymomsbetterthanyomom

My children have been sent to daycare for 10 hours per day since they were three months old. Neither I nor any of the other mums I know whose children are in full-time daycare, had the luxury of choosing whether to go back to work full-time or stay at home. We just have to "cherish that bonding time" outside working hours. It doesn't seem to have had any negative impact on our children.

OP, it's your DD's choice to make.

FrazzledCareerWoman

Is it exeptional?

I was responding to Sockworkshop description of bitter older women in her workplace.
So that is a sample of women who have chosen an unsatisfactory route. Not representative either.

I have four close friends, each one of us- me inclufded took a long time off work, ditching their careers to become SAHMs.

1. A TV producer- now runs an artisan food business.
2. Teacher- now has her own landscape gardening business
3. Psychologist- now runs an alternative health care clinic
4. Project manager- now freelance IT instructor.

One of my friends also woks for national enterprise trust as woman's ambassador. She deals with women on a daily basis, and sees loads of women who have gone down the line of SAHM to start up.
It is an increasingly popular and important route for women to consider, and giving the idea that it is not a viable option does women a huge disservice.

We don't do ourselves any favours by promulgating the fear and laying on the risks. It is unfair and disempowers women.

speakout
They are bitter because they dont have enough money to retire any earlier.
They relied on the DH pension and many are now divorced .
They are watching the rest of us skip off with a full pension at 55 (special classes) and are raging !
Frazzled SPL didnt exist back in the day but DH was very hands on and had sole care on long days when I worked.
He has a fantastic relationship with DCs and yep he just comes in and gets on with it !

She'll find her own path. So many variables. She may not enjoy being a sahm. She may struggle with babies. May not conceive easily next time.
She may end up with 4 kids, sahm, love it, then get back into the workplace. She may retrain or f.e along the way.
This could go so many ways. If they do split she will need ALOT of support from you.

Sockworkshop

If your career is so amazing why do you want to retire early?

I have no plans to ever give up work. Far too much fun.

Money certainly isn't everything, but for many of us, work is about so much more than just money

Oh my word this! I left because in the end we were paying €500 a month for me to work and I had the lower income. I lost so much of myself and could never have realised how much is change as a result of be coming a sahm. The loss ( whether in my head or not) of the feeling of financially contributing, the drop you get when people ask you what you do and their eyes glaze over, the lack of drive and satisfaction you get from work and how horrible it is to have people constantly telling you how lucky you are they'd love to be able to afford to not work ( I'm tired of telling them how financially crippled we are from one wage and I'll never earn what I did then again) ... I adore my kids to the moon and back but I've definitely lost some of me. Saying that this truly isn't everyone and she has to figure this out herself. Just be there for her ( which you will, you sound lovely!)

speakout
Its pretty representative of the area I work in agreed.

Thats a bit snipy speakout
Ive got some health problems so going at 51.
Im going back PT -2 days a week .

@frazzled - SOME of the gender pay gap is explained by workplace discrimination (and not just to do with expectation to give up work - assertiveness, confidence, lower valuing of women’s contribution also apply).
Some is to do with women choosing different careers/sectors.

For higher earners SPL makes more tax sense as can both be in lower tax bracket. Same goes for PT working. Some work places are getting better at PT arrangements. Expectation of women stepping back is reducing - in my case DH would have done so but let me do it because I wanted to more (and my work was more stressful/less flexible - still work PT).

But it is good to have something on CV to be able to start working if DH has a health issue or something unforeseen happens. I’m looking at doing a career change so doing courses (cheap - not degrees) in IT/software dev.

Sockworkshop I was not trying to be snipy- I was responding to your comment:

They are watching the rest of us skip off with a full pension at 55 (special classes) and are raging !

Ok just because you enjoy working doesnt mean after 30 odd years of doing it you still want to do it FT.
My point was I can afford to go down to 2 days a week while they have no choice .

*I assume you are able to enjoy your free time and own small business because you are still happily married to a supportive and reasonably high earning husband?

Sadly there are no guarantees for anyone that this will be the case.*

mintycedric, my OH does not earn a huge amount, bterre than average only.

I do however earn twice as much as he does - and I work only part time hours.

@FrazzledCareerWoman
If it's all down to socio-economic factors then why is the primary caregiver in all species almost always the female? They aren't subject to workplace discrimination or social expectations and yet this pattern is observable time and time again. I'm not saying women must or even should be primary caregivers or SAHMs, but what I am saying is that pretending that some women don't have an innate desire to adopt this role could mean that some women may well feel that they are as oppressed as the women who currently feel that they have been forced into the SAHP role. It isn't really a SAHP Vs WOHP thing as in the vast majority of families even where both parents work FT in equally demanding roles the woman will be the primary caregiver and most likely to devote the most mental and physical energy to their children.

Also I do think that from the start of life when we are exposed to androgens in the womb, male and females are biologically programmed to develop differently as a class. You can see this quite obviously with physical traits such as height or build where the vast majority of men will be taller than women. Why would you assume that we would have the same psychological traits and therefore wouldn't enjoy or be best suited to different kind of work? This isn't saying that women are rubbish at STEM or men can't knit, but maybe at a population level men could be bettee suited to being front line soldiers whilst women could be better suited to being nurses for example. If the pay and social status of these roles was fairer and traditional female vocations weren't deemed to be inferior then what is the problem with this? It isn't the same as saying women must be nurses or can't be soldiers, but just that at a population level we can maybe expect a trend that men and women have a propensity to enter different industries or vocations.

@Bumpitybumper

@SandyY2K
YANBU...but you didn't set the example and you weren't a role model for female financial independence and empowerment yourself
It seems you have a pretty narrow view of female empowerment.

I think it's clear that OP's DD actively wants to fulfill a long held desire to stay at home to raise her children as a SAHM. She clearly views it as important and something she wants to prioritise and is lucky enough to be in a position where this is an option for her.

Depending on another human being to provide your most basis needs (food, shelter etc), is not my idea of financial independence or empowerment.

How is her situation any less of an example of female empowerment than the many women (and men) who would also love to be at home with their children but have to work?

It shows your children that the role of a woman is to look after children. That's not the example I wanted to set for my DDs. When I encourage them to study and get good grades in order to progress to university and have a good career... I do so because I want them to be empowered and have a career to call their own.

I always saw both my parents work and contribute towards our household.

It's one thing to stay at home while the DC are not in school and childcare costs are high, but a being a lifelong SAHM is not something I'd be happy for my DDs to do.

It's very unlikely they'd make such a choice, as they've seen me, my DM and their Aunts all work in professional roles.

A friend of my DH said (while my DDs could hear on speakerphone) that I was lucky as he was always taking me on holidays...she'd seen the pics on FB.

My DDs said "she seems a bit mad...as you work as well Mummy. It's not just Daddy who pays by himself."

In that moment, inside of me, I was glad my DDs could see this.

Working is also no guarantee of financial independence in the way you imply. Lots of people despite maintaing professional careers are dependent on their partners to maintain a reasonable standard of living.

It depends on the type of work you do. If you're doing a low paid role, then you will struggle. A decent education and a good career will make a difference.
I worked pt while my DC were in primary school, so I had a good worklife balance.

My DH earns more than me, but I had a good standard of living before I met him. I want on vacations, I owned a car and had my own apartment.

I never said I was superior to SAHM...not for a minute. However, it's not a choice I would want for my DDs.

Beyond my time on maternity leave, I couldn't imagine staying at home all my life. Toddler groups just weren't for me....and I actually enjoyed my chosen profession. If you have a mundane monotonous job, then I can see why staying at home might be preferable.

I also don't consider a SAHM better than me because she has chosen to do so. Sending my DC to childcare facilities, doesn't mean I passed the responsibility of raising my DC to someone else ad some ppl think.

I don't feel my one purpose in life is to be a mother and wife. I can be those things, as well as being financially independent and fully involved with my DC. When you put your all into being a wife and mum, it can lead to you getting lost along the way...and feeling redundant when your kids get older and don't need you as much.

Our life experiences shape who we become... the day one of my DMs client's came crying to her because her H called her a parasite has stayed with me and this was around 35 years ago.

Speakout

“I have no plans to ever give up work. Far too much fun.”

Completely understand this, my husband feels exactly the same way. He loves his job and without the particular mental stimulation it gives him (his health limits his physical capabilities, I’m physically extremely vigorous) he’d be climbing the walls if he had to stop. He’s spent 4 decades building a career and excellent professional reputation and plans if possible to go on at least as a consultant until he drops.
My mum was a bit of a groundbreaker in a modest way, she was an electrical draughts person working on oil rigs in the 60/70s. She loved her work too until she was forced to retire with arthritis in her hands. She tells me she used to look out of the window on sunny days with a bit of a pang at young mums with their pushchairs sometimes, when we were with childcare, but on balance she was very happy with her choice.
I don’t feel that way. I never enjoyed my paid work, it was drudge as far as I was concerned, I had no great hankering to pursue any particular career path, daydreamed about the other things I could have been doing with the time as I stared out of the unopening window and absolutely came into my own when I stopped paid work.
Many of the things I’ve since learned and done could probably turn into a business if I felt so inclined, but the truth is I just never did and there was no financial imperative to drive it. Our family works really well as a unit as well as fulfilling the individuals.
Our finances are set up so that if we were to split up I would be financially independent. Home and possessions joint, some money in my name already, more earmarked when the pensions kick in soon plus we kept up my NI payments so I’ll get the full state too.
Not everyone’s cup of tea, completely get that. I thinks it’s marvellous when people have a truly rewarding career. Truth is a lot of people don’t, they have a job they don’t enjoy one jot and do it because they have to. If one parent (or both if they can finance it) wants to give up paid work that’s equally valid.
We’ve given our kids the opportunities and educational tools to make of their lives what they wish and what they choose to do is entirely their business (bloody Brexit allowing, sorry couldn’t resist )
I admire people with successful careers, men and women. I do wish sometimes they’d understand that people who have never had any interest in a paid career are often very happy too. Maybe, dare I say it, their achievements are even sometimes worthy of a bit of admiration too 😬

@Namenic I agree. I was summarising. I still question why women seem to "choose " these sectors and men don't, though.

I think she can do what she wants . She may change her mind in due course . Let her roll with the here and now .

She’s got a degree and will be able to return to a career when she wants to .

In a world where so many babies get sent to daycare for 10 hours a day,it's wonderful to know there are still mothers who cherish that bonding time with their children."

So the mums who work don't bond with their children?

See it's comments like that, that piss me off. The inference that sending your child to nursery, means you have less of a bond with them or are not a good mum.

Being a SAHM, doesn't make you a better mum. It would actually have had more of a negative effect for me personally.

@Bumpitybumper the male/female brain thing has been disproven, btw. You are ignoring a lot of social, cultural pressures that are a hangover from a time when women were men's property and discouraged from independence. (I am being extreme to prove a point). Psychology isn't just nature, it's also nurture and outside influence.

And of course we are biologically, physically different. But I struggle when associating the massive societal imbalance in child rearing and domestic responsibilities (for YEARS, not just in infancy) primarily with some "innate biological desire". I think I will have to agree to disagree with you on this.

Your daughter is an adult, you are allowed to not like her decision but it is her decision and as a mother it is your job to love and support her! You've told her your thoughts and feeling so now move on and be a loving mum/granny!

SandyY2K

“See it's comments like that, that piss me off. The inference that sending your child to nursery, means you have less of a bond with them or are not a good mum.”

That’s exactly the problem. A complete lack of understanding and respect on both “sides” (shame to have to put it like that but that’s how it feels reading through).
There are pros and cons to both choices, and it’s very rare person who’s completely satisfied, 100% of the time.
Bottom line is people should have the freedom to do what’s right for them and their families without being denegrated by anyone else.