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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Peeved off!?!?

116 replies

grumbblingmiss · 20/04/2019 23:16

So was talking to DP today about our plans to start a family soon, (coming off contraception in a couple of weeks) I mentioned today in a joke that he hasn't asked me to marry him yet, being that we have spoken about this several times and I've explained that I wanted to be at least engaged before we have a child

I know we don't HAVE to be engaged or married (this is just my personal preference) but his response was 'I don't have to ask you to marry me' 'it doesn't mean we can have a child we don't have to be engaged'

AIBU to be really pissed off??

He already has a DD with his EX and I don't want to just be 'another woman he got pregnant' as our relationship is very serious e.g mortgage, loans together, pets, close knit family

Any help would be appreciated

(Name changed)

OP posts:
snowdrop6 · 21/04/2019 08:12

Why would he want to get married...he has a woman living with him...regularly doing stuff.having sex...and now a baby...what has he got to gain by being married...
What have you got to loose by having a baby without being married.
Your giving him all the power ..
How about
The next time I have sex darling ...I will be married.(...and mean it ..)
He will have you up that isle quicker than you can blink.

crispysausagerolls · 21/04/2019 08:18

It makes no sense IMO to actively plan a baby with someone without being married. If you want a small ceremony why not just do that now?

Everything Bluntness says is spot on.

HBStowe · 21/04/2019 08:21

Don’t TTC until you have this bottomed out. It doesn’t sound like he’s prepared for marriage yet, so it would be mad to have a baby with him. You need to see what he really feels, and if he says he is keen to get married, wait until you have a ring on your finger and a set date before you come off contraception. Ideally, wait until you’re actually married...

PurpleFlower1983 · 21/04/2019 08:35

Engagement means nothing, I was engaged to an abdolute twat for 5 years, so glad we never got married. When my DH and I got engaged we booked the wedding the next day. I think you’ve made a good decision to wait to TTC, as a new mum to a 9 week old, in my experience I can say that you definitely need a very strong relationship with your DP/DH before you embark on parenthood!

NaturatintGoldenChestnut · 21/04/2019 17:00

Engagement with no wedding date is no commitment at all. SIL is 42. She's been engaged 2 times, has 2 adult children and 1 in primary school. She's never been married at all. But he sounds fab, what a catch! Has more baggage than Heathrow and he's only 25.

Not a week goes by on here without a thread on here about how a woman and 'DP' are splitting up and she's financially fucked by it.

AlexaAmbidextra · 21/04/2019 17:41

He said previous he didn't want a date setting that we had to be engaged by because then I would know it was coming

Good excuse! What a load of bollocks.

Graphista · 21/04/2019 19:18

"but it does show you’re living in s romantic idyll and not using your loaf." This!

The rose tinted glasses are firmly in place, these can also blinker you to the consequences of not thinking through what you do next and what his ACTIONS are showing you.

As I said words are cheap, they're meaningless, actions are what matters.

You're correct nobody can tell the future - so you safeguard yourself as much as possible. The reality is women are still MOSTLY

the primary carers for children

the ones that reduce their hours or take career breaks

are paid less,

are the ones that work hours to suit childcare availability

Are the ones taking time off work if children are sick

Are the ones leaving work early or taking time off for parents evenings etc

Are the ones most likely to have residency following a split which limits the hours and days you can work even more, and mean you're the one paying for and arranging childcare, taking time off to cover holidays etc

You have the opportunity to benefit from our experiences you'd be foolish not to take advantage of that.

A child is a much bigger commitment than a marriage, you're forever tied to a co-parent and you can't change your mind about a child like you can with a marriage.

If he hasn't the maturity or courage to commit to a marriage he definitely isn't ready to be a father.

Does he pull his weight now? Financially? Practically (housework, mental load)? Emotionally?

Does he pay his ex cms minimum or does he give more if he can? How often does he see his child? What does he do when they spend time together? Is he a Disney dad or a sensible one?

These are all indications of what kind of future partner and father he'll be.

Babies, sleep deprivation, stress all test a relationship to its limits.

If you can't rely on him now, if he's not a decent father now he won't be a reliable decent father to your child either.

Do YOU know the costs of raising a child? Have you looked into childcare costs? General costs of raising a child? Cos honestly they get MORE expensive as they get older, relatively speaking babies are cheap, teenagers cost a bloody fortune!

An engagement is meaningless, it has absolutely no status in law and is not actually a commitment at all.

"I know I wouldn't be in the best position if things went south" other than his ex do you actually know any single mums? If you do I strongly advise you talk to them if you're close enough to ask them about how tough it is. There's numerous threads on here you can read about how it is to be one too.

I've been a single mum for 16 years, while I have never regretted having my dd I think most people are completely clueless about how hard it is if they have not been part of a single parent family.

You say you have a well paid flexible job, I'd be very interested to know what you consider well paid and exactly how flexible they are. Are there single parents working there?

Because my experience (I hold 2 degrees and have a wealth of work experience and excellent refs) is that you are severely compromised in what hours and where you can work when you have to be available for a child.

Childcare costs are very high, childcare availability is limited it's generally mon-fri 8-6 and you can't send your child in if they're sick there's a lot of rules around that. And kids get sick a lot especially when they start school and are knackered and exposed to a load of new germs. Every tummy bug is a minimum of 2 days off. Every rash you need to be aware could be chicken pox or similar...

Forget working weekends or overtime or bank holidays etc unless you are absolutely certain that family will help out - and don't assume they will. Many families make all the right noises but don't come through when push comes to shove. Very few single parents I know (and I know a lot)

And the "buck stops here" is absolutely true too in single parenting. Everything that a parent is responsible for is down to you, there's nobody to relieve the pressure, nobody else responsible for or blamed for when things go wrong. Which they do. Every health scare, every bad school report, every incident of naughtiness, every neighbour complaint, every friendship fallout...is down to you to deal with.

You sound incredibly naive and inexperienced and as if you haven't actually until this thread considered all the implications particularly for you of having a child with this non committing man

I also know more than most that it's not always men that leave/lose residency or that are single parents.

I know of several families where this is the case for a variety of reasons my own brother was a single resident dad for 7 years until his 2nd wife moved in. He'd been a nrp then his ex wife died in a car wreck and he became his eldest's single resident parent.

I know of families where mum just left without giving a reason, where there's been addiction issues, where the couple split and dad had been primary carer so got residency...

It's been no easier for those dads than it has been for the single mums I know. They get a lot more praise on sm etc but they're in the same situation as the single mums mostly financially and in terms of childcare etc.

I think you really need to educate yourself on the reality for single parents.

None I know regret being parents but it's bloody hard! It's certainly not the ideal situation for parent or child as far as I'm concerned.

Given how young your man is and you've been together a while how long was he with his ex? How old was the child when they split?

"Not a week goes by on here without a thread on here about how a woman and 'DP' are splitting up and she's financially fucked by it." I'd say closer to daily.

Seriously op go and browse the relationship and lone parent boards here and elsewhere. It's so so common for men to string women along for YEARS without ever making a real commitment to them (getting them pregnant either deliberately or accidentally is NOT a commitment because it's still far to easy for fathers to sod off not see their kids and even if they do pay maintenance the bare min and only if cms catch up with them!)

He has nothing to lose by impregnating you - you have everything to lose if you do so without marrying.

Graphista · 21/04/2019 19:24

Meant to say very few single parents I know have real practical, financial and emotional support from the wider family and community.

RevealTheLegend · 21/04/2019 19:44

OP there’s absolutely no judgment here from ANYONE

Just years and years worth of bitterly hard won experience.

Your fella could be perfect, 100% genuine prince. Hearts and flowers all th way. But if you have a child and aren’t married, if he gets ill, has a heart attack or dies in a car accident you are up shit creek

Marriage gives you legal protections that you just can’t get any other way.

crispysausagerolls · 21/04/2019 20:07

Graphista

EXCELLENT POST!!!

Also excellent post on the horrible wedding invitation evening only thread. You are on fire! Very, very sensible advice all round.

Yesicancancan · 21/04/2019 20:26

This is easy, ask him to marry you. The reaction, and answer will tell you all you need to know. You are a grown woman, ask him, you will save wasting time and emotion on this. Weddings do not have to cost a lot. They really don’t.

Graphista · 21/04/2019 20:28

Crispy thank you Blush

As reveal says it's not about judgment - if ANYBODY knows about judgment it's a single disabled mother on benefits with a disabled child! Especially as both of us are invisibly disabled. I've had appalling comments even by strangers right to my face!

I've experienced the discrimination that DOES happen to single mothers in applying for jobs, housing, at parents evenings, from teachers and childcare providers hell I've even had it on public transport!

Op if you think THIS is judgment you are absolutely not ready to deal with the ACTUAL constant judgment a single mother gets multiple times

every

Single

Day!

If anything we're trying to ensure you DON'T have to deal with any of that.

My sister has definitely had it worse as a result of not having the same surname as her kids (they gave the kids his name "because when we marry you'll take my name and then we'll all have the same name") but he would never agree to marry, and when they split it was harder for her to get maintenance sorted (he denied paternity of youngest which was bollocks!) plus she had no recourse regarding the family home (even though her name was on the mortgage) and received no financial settlement (even though there was a savings account which she gave him cash to add to)

Reveals is right too about critical illness and death which I think I also highlighted upthread.

I've been a nurse of critically ill people and while there's no legal definition of "next of kin" if there's ANY doubt or dispute healthcare staff for their own protection will go by what is clearly legally defined as "kin" - people with whom the critically ill person is legally connected. Especially when it comes to irreversible decisions like removing life supporting treatment, high risk treatments, organ donation etc

Death - especially if he were to die intestate (without having made a will) can leave you extremely vulnerable. Even with a will in certain parts of the U.K. If you're not married it can be very easy for people legally recognised as family to challenge a will benefitting an unmarried partner - even if you have children together.

Honestly the law does NOT recognise unmarried partners at all in the uk.

7salmonswimming · 21/04/2019 20:42

You’re traditional enough to expect your fiancé to ask for your father’s blessing....but not so traditional you want to be married before having children. I think you’re settling for what you can get.

He’s committed enough to have a baby with you....but not enough to marry you. I think he knows that marriage will require more of him than a baby would, seeing as he can leave you to do it all and just sling you some CM now and then.

Why do women do this to themselves? You’re not even engaged to him and already you’re compromising. Stand up for yourself and what you clearly want. He says there’s nothing wrong with being engaged for a couple of years? Find out why he needs to wait a couple of years. If he’s going to do it anyway, knows it’s what you want, and doesn’t need to save up as you both want a small ceremony: what is he waiting for??

LordNibbler · 21/04/2019 20:59

The asking your father for permission/blessing is patriarchal bollocks though. That's treating you like chattel!
Absolutely! I never understand why, in this day and age, 2019, women are waiting for men to propose. Like it's a gift being bestowed upon us. We don't wait for men to ask us to get a mortgage, usually it's a joint decision. We don't wait for men to ask us to have children, usually also a joint decision within the relationship. So why the hell are so many bloody women waiting for this gift of marriage to be bestowed upon them by men. And why do men seem to think they are in charge of proposals?

Smotheroffive · 21/04/2019 21:09

...and who still asks for a father's permission.

Hes not the one marrying, and any decent df is going tonsay thisnis down to his DD and its her decision that is the only one that matters and that his is irrelevant. I would do the same if any of mines' intendeds came to ask, I'd say what does what I say matter!

Graphista I think it's awesome the way you have spoken out about your life and such difficult challenges in hopes of benfitting OP. Flowers

Graphista · 21/04/2019 21:33

Thank you smother.

I'm pretty open not only on here but in real life too - because I've done nothing wrong.

Possibly an age thing too as you give less fucks as you get older.

Plus I think the more openly mysoginist, patriarchal bollocks is discussed and critiqued the less likely (hopefully) women (and children) will be to get screwed over by men not taking full responsibility for their actions.

There's still too many women unaware of how truly vulnerable they make themselves by becoming mothers in our deeply patriarchal society.

I'd love to know your partners exs take on his suitability as a father!

Smotheroffive · 21/04/2019 21:57

Yes, me.too.Graphista but I suspect I already know, not only the answer to that,but also how that might be 'heard'

Graphista · 21/04/2019 23:12

I agree smother.

Op has fallen for the oldest story going "ex was a nightmare" and a tale spun to make her dp look like a blameless angelic victim!

How often have we heard in real life and read on here about 2nd/subsequent partners/spouses falling for such nonsense only to find when they too become an ex he spins exactly the same line to the next one and treats partner/spouse 2/most recent ex exactly how ex 1 was treated - and the children.

My ex's 2nd wife I have on good authority feels trapped because she fears if she left he'd treat her and their kids exactly how he's treated me and dd ie very poorly! And she's got 5 to raise! So she's far more vulnerable/stuck than I was.

But I have little sympathy as that was her choice (she was OW) she knew what he was like (not only as a cheat but because she was supposedly my friend too so heard about his other shortcomings from me before they had their affair) and chose not only to stay with and marry him but to have those 5 kids, while also compromising her career quite drastically to support his (he was in army until quite recently).

More fool her.

Smotheroffive · 21/04/2019 23:56

I do honestly believe that people see the abusive bastard differently, as they experience them differently don't they?

As in, if an exs new wife were to ask his ex wife about their relationship they are not really going to 'hear' it in the way the wife actually experienced it.

It s the reason why so many women are isolated from friends and family because he creates a performance mask around others, and even if it slips, they don't see the depth of depravity [that she might 'claim'].

It's what causes the women of the world to be so isolated. We all benefitted from 20/20 hindsight Smile

Smotheroffive · 22/04/2019 00:00

So sad Graphista that this is another woman and her DC that he's trapped.

So many DC too Sad

She wishes she'd really heard what you'd said, I'm sure she must,but now she has DC and couldn't wish them away. It's so tragic.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 22/04/2019 00:07

There's an easy solution to this. You do the asking. Anything other than an outright yes and I would be thinking about whether he was committed enough to have a child.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 22/04/2019 00:09

X posted with YesIcan Blush

Thankfuckitsfriday1 · 22/04/2019 00:11

So you jokingly said something to him.. He replied in a joking way.
You got offended and when you asked him he said he was just joking? What's the issue?

Not everyone wants to get married or thinks you have to be engaged or married before kids. It's an outdated view and many people stay together years without vei g married happily. You have pets and a mortgage together, will a ring really make that much difference? Perhaps he's planned it for next week or he dreamed of his future children being part of the day..

Maybe he wants a big lovely wedding but you can't afford one yet so need to wait until. After kids to get married? There is no rush.

Him saying one throw away comment really shouldn't make you doubt your. Whole relationship/child conceiving plans tbh.

Smotheroffive · 22/04/2019 00:13

He's already made his decision very very clear, in his PA way. She knows hes not going to ask, he's made it very clear. The answer is not to ask him bit to accept his position and decide what to do about that (answer not being to co.e off the pill and have a baby with this man and repeat history, becoming the another 'bitchy ex')

Thankfuckitsfriday1 · 22/04/2019 00:14

Also.. I had a child before marriage or even engagement. I let him wait until he wanted to propose, I didn't want to force him into it.

He proposed after 4 years together and a 1 year old. Now married with 2 kids.

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