It’s like a parallel universe

[Imustbemad00]

Inspired by a few threads recently about money. Specifically money in London. I’m shocked at how many people seem to think you need to be rich to live in London (£100k per year is rich to me) and how many people think £100k is not a lot in London.
Why is this specific to London?Other than house prices?
Just to put it into perspective, I’m a single parent with 2 children living in zone 1 London. I take home £22000.
Admittedly, cheap rent at £650pcm. But we manage. Obviously we’re not well off, can’t afford fancy holidays, buying clothes for summer at the moment is a struggle, have no savings, can’t afford to decorate. But we have what we need, the occasional treat, short break
Most people I know locally are in similar positions. But I suppose people have a tendency to mix with their own kind.
I just find this ‘other london’ bizarre. The London where you need 100k to barely get by

Anyone who is buying a three bed semi in London is rich

Not nonsense at all. How much of a deposit do you need to save and how much do you need to earn to qualify for a mortgage on a 3 bed semi in London?

I have no idea how much it costs but a wild stab in the dark is that it's a million pound property. Ie you must have an enormous amount of equity or spare money for the deposit, or a huge salary to qualify for the mortgage, ie rich.

And when it's paid for, you'll have a big asset that you could liquidate and live off the proceeds by buying somewhere with normal house prices.

I see the OP never came back to answer how much they get in benefits

We have a joint salary of close to 100k and we couldn’t afford to replicate our like in Manchester, down in London, so I can well believe people on that salary would struggle.

Op is very lucky with her rent but being on her income as opposed to the 100k she mentioned means she doesn't have the choice that a person on 100k has. Given the choice I'd rather have a huge mortgage and earn 100k and have the choice of where to live than cheap rent but stuck in that same place for life.

We live in Zone 2 and our mortgage is £2 million on a house valued at around £5 million (very typical in this area). It’s a 5 bed-period property with 3 living rooms, study, garage and large garden for London.

We have another house which we couldn’t sell last summer because of the Brexit nonsense so we had to do a buy-to-let mortgage on that for 1.3 million (house valued at around £3 million). We rent this out for £7 k per month.

We also let another 1 bed flat for £1,600 per month. This flat was bought for £550k about 5 years ago and is less than 50 m sq - no outside space and over a shop.

The £8,600 or so a month roughly covers the mortgage repayments and interest rates are low. As soon as Brexit is sorted (hopefully abandoned) and the markets pick up, we’re looking to hopefully sell the flat and our previous house. House prices have fallen since last year, but mainly nobody is moving because of Stamp Duty and Brexit uncertainty. Rather than paying £500 k on stamp, people are tending to do basement conversions or extensions instead.

We have 4 DC in independent schools at an average of £7k each per term. This is our main expense by far. At 50% tax, it takes £180k per year to pay around £90k in school fees.

All this is fairly typical where we live. DH is self-employed so no fixed income. I’m a SAHM. Nobody helped us get in the property ladder and no inheritances etc, but we were lucky to get in the property ladder at the right time. We did not grow up wealthy at all and 100% realise we’re in a bubble - but there are millions of Londoners in the same bubble! In a way it’s all relative because the more money you have, the more risk you tend to take on.

We did not grow up wealthy at all and 100% realise we’re in a bubble - but there are millions of Londoners in the same bubble!

No. There are, at last count (and before housing price falls), 430,720 houses in London worth more than £1m. Only a fraction of those will be worth more than £2m, and a very small number worth £5m, and a tiny number having a £5m house and spare over for another - it's a bell curve thing.

I fully agree with pps that £100k isn't as 'rich' as it sounds, but you are in a bubble in a bubble.

I guess anyone anywhere will be better off in social housing, which is cheaper, than in private rented or owned, which is more expensive.

I've just read that 17% of households are living in social housing in the UK.

That's a staggering percentage.

Yes OP, you do live in a parallel London, you won't have to ever worry about a landlord kicking you out or making your mortgage repayments..

Lend us a tenner @Tango9pm?

Wtf has your situation got to do with this thread anyway. Since you clearly earn significantly more than £100k pa, why do you think your input is in the slightest bit relevant?

Fuck all bibbity... Just an excuse to brag.

Actually I think the post is quite useful simply because it illustrates that there are lots of people who display jealous and aggressive hostility toward a council tenant earning £22k but none toward someone who owns over £5.5m worth of property.

she’d starve on 22k post tax if she wasn’t being subsidised up the arse by higher rate tax payers
Do you really think that?
I brought up 1 kid on about 19k all in ( as in that's what we had to live on no magic millions from top ups. My rent was the same as op's. We didn't starve. I ran a very old car. We went to the seaside once a year.
Now my rent is even lower than ops and we do ok ( again, no.top ups), but I'd rather be on 100 k!

GregoryPeckingDuck

£650 pcm is cheap no matter where you live.

You can rent a three bedroom terraced house for less than £500 where I used to live...

I have no idea how much it costs but a wild stab in the dark is that it's a million pound property

Again, nonsense. I live in an untrendy part of London, zone three. We own our 4 bed house...it's valued at less than £500k

Take home pay on £22,000 is £1541 pcm. After her rent, OP is living on £891 pcm and supporting two children. She will be entitled to child benefit and maybe some tax credits (I don't know).
I am a single parent of two in London, just like OP, and on just below £100K. My mortgage is £1300 and childcare £2700 (no tax credits here, and my salary means I need to work very unsociable hours sometimes - staying in the office until midnight or working during the weekend with no overtime pay). After rent and childcare, I have approximately £1.2K left. Add a Zone 1 to 5 ticket cost and we're even with the OP.
Not complaining, just the reality.

Actually I think the post is quite useful simply because it illustrates that there are lots of people who display jealous and aggressive hostility toward a council tenant earning £22k but none toward someone who owns over £5.5m worth of property.

Absofuckinglutely THIS ^

Tango9pm, okay I will bite.

There only something like 315,000 adults in the whole uk who earn more £150k. Even if your post is true, millions don't live in the same bubble as you.

Having said that, I may have missed the point you were trying to make.

Actually I think the post is quite useful simply because it illustrates that there are lots of people who display jealous and aggressive hostility toward a council tenant earning £22k but none toward someone who owns over £5.5m worth of property.

^Give it time. But...

Neither deserves the hostility.

While I agree £100k is a lot of money, some people on this thread are being deliberately obtuse. In

London, if you have a family in private rented accommodation or a mortgage, your £100K salary (£66K post tax/in the hand) IS NOT ENOUGH TO AFFORD A NANNY OR PRIVATE SCHOOL FEES.

So a family start with £66K post tax.

Private rent in London for a 2 bed property is minimum £2K/month = £24K / year

Ontop of that they have council tax, gas/electric etc - let’s say conservatively £500/month = £6k/year

Travel card - minimum £1600/year

So BEFORE accounting for any food, phone bill, internet, clothing, etc they’ve already spent £32K of their £66K.

A nanny salary in London is minimum £30K. If this family employs a nanny they will have £2K PER YEAR left to all afford food, clothes and every other expense in their life. Not affordable.

Private school fees average £17K a year. And if they’ve got school age kids with no family to help (and no nanny), they’d have wrap around childcare costs too. That’s easily £8K a year. So this family now have £12K a year left to pay for food & every other expense in their life, more doable, but still fairly tight.

So, yes those on £100K in London surely have choices those on lower incomes don’t. We shouldn’t feel sorry for them.

But those choices usually DON’T include private school, plus a nanny, plus multiple foreign holidays blah blah blah that many on here seem to think.

And it’s ridiculous that an £100K doesn’t afford that lifestyle, given that is in the top 5% of earners in the country.

Private school fees average £17K a year
More like £20K in London. In your example, it would be impossible if the family has more than one child.

Also agree @Tango9pm you post is particularly useless, given your family clearly earn many multiples more of £100K per year

@LittleElle on 22k pa the OP would get around £120 p/m child tax credits, if any, based on two kids - plus £160 approx child benefit. Not sure exactly what other benefits she would need to answer about but what a scummy thing to even mention. 3/4 of the fucking country with kids are claiming 'benefits' 🙄 because they're there to help children out, more than anyone.

@Namechangenumber57most private schools offer full wrap around care and holiday clubs inc in fees. Every single one we have looked at so

Good point @silvercuckoo. Totally unachievable with two. I also agree £17K is low for private school fees in London,