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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

It’s like a parallel universe

333 replies

Imustbemad00 · 19/04/2019 23:23

Inspired by a few threads recently about money. Specifically money in London. I’m shocked at how many people seem to think you need to be rich to live in London (£100k per year is rich to me) and how many people think £100k is not a lot in London.
Why is this specific to London?Other than house prices?
Just to put it into perspective, I’m a single parent with 2 children living in zone 1 London. I take home £22000.
Admittedly, cheap rent at £650pcm. But we manage. Obviously we’re not well off, can’t afford fancy holidays, buying clothes for summer at the moment is a struggle, have no savings, can’t afford to decorate. But we have what we need, the occasional treat, short break
Most people I know locally are in similar positions. But I suppose people have a tendency to mix with their own kind.
I just find this ‘other london’ bizarre. The London where you need 100k to barely get by Confused

OP posts:
Flyinga · 19/04/2019 23:55

Take Julia and Peter on a combined income of 100k. Their mortgage per month is 1600. They pay for private tuition for Jane and Mark to study music. They have a cleaner as they both work long hours. They have maintenance, repairs, upkeep, security, council tax etc. to pay for. House Insurance, life insurance, health insurance. Julia and Peter possibly have a dog too. A big dog (who is part of the family). Peter's undisclosed hobby golfing takes him away for weekends at a time which involves a lot of travel. Peter's golf clubs cost a lot.

Peter and Julia have Alexa, a smart TV and like to dine out. As they both work long hours, they need to hire a nanny.

You see where I'm going with this?

SmilingButClueless · 19/04/2019 23:55

It’s housing costs that are the issue for most people, unless they’re in social housing or managed to buy before the market went haywire.

Most people in London renting a 2 bedroom flat would be paying at least £1,000 more per month than you are. The cheapest 2 bed zone 1 flat I found is £1647pcm, so to rent that someone would need to be on around £50k to pass the affordability checks. And then you’re into higher rate tax, so you don’t get to keep as much as you might think. Add on childcare costs if you work full time and you probably don’t have that much left.

And I’m not sure how comfortable a family would be in the cheapest flat, it looks pretty small!

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-61684836.html

Original poster
Imustbemad00 · 19/04/2019 23:56

I don’t think anyone is bizarre for aspiring to afford nice things. I think it’s bizarre that so many people think 100k is not a great deal of money in London. Even with a mortgage or market rents.

OP posts:
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 19/04/2019 23:56

Where you're living honey would cost about 2k per month for a 2 bed rented privately (conservative estimate).
You probably pay fuck all tax.
You probably get child tax credits, housing benefit, council tax support

This ^^

ssd · 19/04/2019 23:57

A lot of sneery replies here from people insisting they could never live your life op

Not much to be jealous of there, is there

Original poster
Imustbemad00 · 19/04/2019 23:57

@Flyinga I feel we are making the same point but from different perspectives.

OP posts:
LBOCS2 · 19/04/2019 23:59

And they all live in z1 and pay £650 a month in rent?

I grew up in London and still live here now and I don't know anyone who has that. So it's evidently not that common.

Original poster
Imustbemad00 · 19/04/2019 23:59

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss
Could pay 2k a month and still have shit loads left over from a 100k take home. What’s your point?

OP posts:
Original poster
Imustbemad00 · 20/04/2019 00:00

@LBOCS2
Yes, lots.

OP posts:
Original poster
Imustbemad00 · 20/04/2019 00:03

I feel like this has been derailed slightly but my point has been validated.

OP posts:
namechanger110 · 20/04/2019 00:03

zone 5 here and a 2 bed flat would be £1400 minimum for a minute flat say over a row of shops where both children would have to share a room and a lounge you could just about fit a 2 seater sofa in (ie somewhere to sleep not to enjoy living in). The figures you quote are not real world figures :(

F33lguilty · 20/04/2019 00:03

I've lived and worked in London for decades and never been in a position where I've been able to get social housing. So you're very lucky to have that. In that time I've earned between 16k-100+k a year so I've been there, done that.

So it's a parallel universe to many Londoners to have social housing. Most are in the private housing market where they pay £2K/month to live in zone 1-2 or move to Luton and commute into work.

So yes I think you're lucky to live in your circumstances. I'm not critical but remember that it would take a person on 50K to come close to affording your housing situation.

TrendyNorthLondonTeen · 20/04/2019 00:04

Agree 100% OP. Only on Planet MN would anyone suggest that £100k a year (that's £8000 a month!!) isn't enough to live on, unless youve taken out a mortgage on Buckingham Palace.

BendyBusBuggy · 20/04/2019 00:05

I don't think they were talking about 100k take home on the other thread, I think it was gross.

ssd · 20/04/2019 00:05

Flyinga is stating the obvious that a couple working all hours to pay for a lifestyle they think makes them happy are spending money all day long to pay for that lifestyle..... The op is saying she can live in London and doesn't aspire to that lifestyle so doesn't have it and doesn't need to pay hand over fist to get it and keep it and doesn't understand the insistence sometimes on mn that that lifestyle is the only one to be lived in London

Greeborising · 20/04/2019 00:07

Op it’s all a matter of prospective.
As I said before 100k is clearly a substantial amount of money but it really depends on your life style.
We chose to educate our children privately because the state schools available to us aren’t great
I’m not having a pop a state schools
There are many great state schools, just not where we live
So, fees are on average 7k a term.
Multiply that by 3 for a year and what if you’ve got 3 kids?
That’s approx 65k a year

pallisers · 20/04/2019 00:09

You have a secure lifetime tenancy in zone 1 london at 650 a month.

To be honest in my world someone having a secure tenancy in the centre of a major capital city at 650 a month is another parallel universe.

Do you acknowledge your own luck/privilege/whatever?

saraclara · 20/04/2019 00:11

I don't live in London and I earn less than a quarter of that £100k so I have no horse in this race. But what if you don't have social housing?

My friend (mid 30s) lives in zone 1 and pays £650 for one room in a shared flat. To rent your 2 bed to himself he'd be looking at £2k I imagine. And he doesn't qualify for any sort of benefit or top up, or any form of social housing. I don't know what he earns, but I'm going to guess about 45-50k. Yet yes, he's sharing with two other professional people in their late 30s. It's no way to live.

Comparing yourself (given social housing) wiith someone who has to buy or privately rent, is simply not logical.

Original poster
Imustbemad00 · 20/04/2019 00:13

I acknowledge I’m lucky to have my home. But to be honest, I’d rather not be in London.
I understand my market value rent would be a couple of grand but the point I’m making is if had 100 grand I could pay that and still be more than well off.
Anyway I’m off to bed now.

OP posts:
Figure8 · 20/04/2019 00:13

@Flyinga
I can't quite work out your tone....

People on lower incomes often work full time, but can't afford a cleaner, and many of those extras....

mrsmalcolmreynolds · 20/04/2019 00:13

namechanger agree entirely. The only time I paid less rent in London than OP was for a house share in Dollis Hill in 2001!

Even the comparison mortgage numbers provided by PP are bonkers. My house is worth about £600k and our mortgage payments are £2.5k - with about 75% LTV. So suggesting a mortgage for a comfortable family home in central London might be around £1600 a month is silly.

Flyinga · 20/04/2019 00:17

I was comparing like for like i.e. a 2 bed flat.

PawPawNoodle · 20/04/2019 00:21

A person on 100k a year pays more in tax/NI than your salary, it's not as if they get every penny. With pension and student loan deductions it's be more like £60k or about 5k a month. Sounds fab.

To live in z1 in a flat big enough for an adult and 2 kids you're looking at at least £2k in rent. If theres childcare for the 2 kids required it can easily be another £2k. Then there's £1k for everything else including council tax, Bill's etc. The father doesn't pay maintenance.

Assuming you dont pay pension or student loan your take home is £1500, less your rent is about £800. You could easily be receiving double that in benefits/credits and child maintenance alone. Which would put you in a better position than the person earning 100k.

Parallel universe indeed!

PickAChew · 20/04/2019 00:24

You are extremely fortunate to have that rent. You couldn't rent in my part of my north eastern city for that.

tictoc76 · 20/04/2019 00:36

OP this was a bit of a silly post really because clearly you have plenty of benefits that allow you to live in subsidised housing and afford central London living. Luckily others are working and paying taxes to allow you your comfortable lifestyle.