To say mums of girls are smug

[TheMidiMitch]

Just been at a party where my son along with the other boys have been repeatedly told off for fighting (quite rightly so and largely by me). Whilst the girls are busy braiding hair and pretending to make cupcakes, the boys are looking like Lord of the Flies. Not meant to be a goady post but please let me know there's light at the end of this tunnel...anyone...

meant to be 'young' women not 'long'

Well my DD is 4 and a half and has high functioning autism. The boys in her year group are on the whole much more accepting of her whereas the girls are generally much more spiteful and often roll their eyes when they talk to her and laugh at her. Absolutely nothing wrong with boys OP.

I have worked with lots and lots of kids. The girls will play nicely until a worker allows them to play rough and tumble. The boys will play rough and tumble until a worker allows them to do quiet games. And I have seen so many parents who say otherwise, treat their girls and boys totally different,

Rock4please, totally agree. Then people wonder why parents attitudes mean their girls and boys behave differently.
All the research shows that until puberty, there is no difference in girls and boys brains. It is totally nurture until then.

I do think that MN is attracting posters of lower intelligence than even a couple of years ago.

I think that society seems to be coming across as less intelligent not more. As a teacher I see new teachers coming into the profession who have been through school in the 2001-2014 and their general knowledge and skills such as discussion, analysis and so on are woefully lacking compared to people at school from the 13 year band before them.

I had two of each. Give me boys any day!!

"Then people wonder why parents attitudes mean their girls and boys behave differently"

This. It used to drive me nuts when some little boys at DD's toddler group would push in front of other kids or snatch toys and the parent would just respond with an indulgent "ha ha, this one's a little monkey!", whereas the little girls would be picked up on the same behaviour. Or a toddler would be disrupting the whole class and the mother would just blame his aggression on testosterone levels (in a two year-old).

In case anyone misinterprets this as an "anti-boy" thing, I think little boys are wonderful, as are little girls. My issue is with certain parents who excuse aggressive and disruptive behaviour in small boys because "boys are just wired differently, you have no idea how easy you have it with a DD", and then interpret the fact that their sons continue to be disruptive and aggressive as evidence that girls and boys are completely different species.

I believe that boys and girls are biologically different at a population level due to amongst other things their different exposure to androgens in the womb. This doesn't mean that all boys will be more boistorious or aggressive than girls, but I do think that as a class boys have a greater proposensity towards rough play etc and this is observable in other primates.

I think ignoring biological differences and their associated traits can lead to a situation where our expectations of what is "normal" can be skewed and we can fail to offer support for those groups who might need it. For example boys tend to mature more slowly than girls so when summer born boys in particular start school there are often (not always) issues around concentration and their ability to cope in a classroom setting. I think recognising this trend allows teachers and parents to monitor these children more closely and to offer additional help and support where it's required. Boys may also need extra support in learning how to channel their biologically driven aggression in a socially acceptable manner. Equally girls have their own biologically driven traits observable at a class level that will mean that they could require additional help or support in specific areas.

The debate around sex versus gender is important, but I think it's imperative that we don't seek to attribute all differences between girls/boys and women/men to socialisation. Yes, socialisation certainly plays a role and can have undesirable outcomes for both sexes, this doesn't mean though that men and women are inherently the same. I am especially suspicious of this viewpoint because in most cases those putting forward this view tend to suggest that actually the default for both sexes is the behaviours and traits traditionally associated with males e.g. career focussed, enjoy physical play, want practical non-frilly clothing etc.

I have 3 girls. All with different personality's would you believe so I have a child who is more difficult. All children are different. What I have noticed is parents of boys tend to not deal with the shitty behaviour and shrug it off as boys will be boys. My girls fight just as much as I've seen boys do, they also run around like crazy and are rude and naughty. But what ever 🤷‍♀️ if I'm smug because I tell my kids off then fine.

I do find it really interesting re the cultural differences. Before 1 when I went to other children’s houses the toys all seemed the same. Now at nearly 3 the difference is far bigger. I do see a difference at pre-school age. It might all be nurture but there is little point pretending it’s not there. I went to a party where there were 10 boys and 3 girls. It was a bit lord of the flies and my girl came to me upset because the boys were too noisy and wanted to sit with the grownups instead. She is normally super social and plays happily with the boys at nursery (often more than the girls) but there was something about the balance that seemed to tip them into being a bit feral.

That is rubbish Laura. I have twin boys and a girl and all are treated the same.

Op I had twin boys first so feel your pain. That said my dd born very soon after was also a bear cub so I had 3 of them.

I do think very young boys like and need bear cub activity as do girls. It’s ensuring they get it when appropriate. I think girls copy from a young age and will be more likely to engage in passive activities if others are, often they are expected to. Not sure my dd would have engaged in tedious activities like hair braiding and cupcakes thankfully.

It’s not about girls being bitchy but the fact remains they have periods. .I would happily trade bear cub playing over my pmt suffering teenage girl at times. Girls can also be quite unkind in year 6 and 7. The threads on here attest to that as does my rl experience. I wonder if hormones play a part.

That said op once you get to the teenage years there is a lot of sleep and grunts for communication from all. You will think back fondly to your grubby, lively young children and how they would let you cuddle them and kiss their messy hair.

I’m quite depressed about the comments upthread about being doomed to lose touch with my two boys when they grow up as they move to live near their wives parents and being a “second best” grandparent

Is this true?

When I was little, I got into scraps all the time. At around the same age DS1 would much rather sit and colour and has exclusively female friends.

Not true for anyone I know, offspring move to where their jobs are (could be abroad) rather than close to the woman's mum.

In fact, I don't know anyone where this is true

If you look at MN a lot of women have this attitude towards their MILs, viognier. It's not true in my family, though - my DB is very close to both my parents (as am I), and they see loads of DN. DH is also very close to his mum and we try and make sure that his parents are just as involved in DS's life as mine. But then no one involved in this believed in any of this 'boys are all like this and girls are all like that' in the first place - DH's big treat as a child was to go for tea with his mum and he still loves to do that, whereas in my family no one did tea or shopping and there was no expectation that I'd have all this 'bonding' time with mum that DB didn't (and vice versa with dad). We're all just people and we rub along on that basis.

I’m quite depressed about the comments upthread about being doomed to lose touch with my two boys when they grow up as they move to live near their wives parents and being a “second best” grandparent. Is this true?

I don't think it's a given at all. We have a much better relationship with my ILs and lived near them for years. My DP are great too but can be difficult and our relationship with ILs is much more relaxed. They see DS a lot more than my DP (who are always really busy) and have a lovely time with him. DH loves his DM and is very close with her and she's great and only occasionally annoying so it's all great.

Society can be a lot less tolerant of girls climbing and running around like mad things when boys get the "boys will be boys" thing. Dd1 can be very hard to parent - incredible temper, usually found hanging upside down off something or trying to climb any vertical surface but can also be very stereotypically "girlie" at times... Dd2 is generally much more naturally compliant and in to things like superheros and "playing power rangers" - despite never having seen the show and the only superhero stuff she's seen is the Incredibles.

They are who they are basically. Mine can brawl with the best of them but I don't allow it. I think it's allowed more in terms of this "boys will be boys" mentality.

Definitely not smug - more frazzled but won't apologise for having the kids I have who actually are fantastic little people and just have a few issues needing ironing out like they all do.

I have one of each. As a woman I find ds is very “boyish” but actually he’s a mixture.

Of my two, he’s the most “mothering” and will play and interact with babies and toddlers so beautifully and gently. Yet he’ll also crash about with kids his own age.

He loves football and being outdoors yet also like drawing and reading. He’s a massive book worm.

In short he’s wonderful and infuriating at times! Like all dcs really. As is my DD.

I actually do think that there is a difference between boys and girls and there are also individual personality traits to throw into the mix which makes us all unique, I don’t like or agree that gender is purely a “social construct” - that’s a theory, nothing more - also science has so much to learn about the brain and link with us individuals.

The issue is that people value boys over girls or vice versa - there are different behaviours which change over time. One is not better than the other.

One thing though, I’ve noticed that a lot of my group of mum friends all have daughters only and can be very disparaging of boys. Eg boys “smell”, they’re stupid etc etc. This is damaging for their daughters IMO as it continues to perpetuate the idea that one gender is better than the other. When it isn’t!

I remember when my 2 boys were little going camping with a friend who had 3 boys. After a lively week we were trying to take the tents down and pack up - it was a nightmare - 5 boys creating havoc. In desperation my friend and I loaded the younger kids into buggies and took all 5 boys for a walk while our DHs got on with packing up. Walked around the corner to see a couple calmly packing up their tent with their 4 girls all sitting happily in a circle making daisy chains. We were jealous.

Our son and his friends have always been much nicer than our daughter and hers (some of the girls were just horrid).
She’s all grown up and lovely now 😁

I have three girls and one (very small!) boy. DD1 was a very typical 'girl' sat still, read books, played nicely. DD2 was sweet, but feral; wouldn't wear clothes, constantly up a tree/falling off something. DD3 required walking twice a day or she would be swinging from the light fittings.

The differences between children are bigger than the differences between the genders by a long way. At the party in the OP my DD2, who still only hangs out with boys and always has done, would have been wrestling on the floor, DD1 would be talking to any grown up she could grab the attention of and DD3 would be in the garden, running in circles.

I'm assuming that DS will have his own brand of crazy to annoy me with when he stops being a sweet cuddly baby!

This is so true! When my son was little he was super high octane and contstantly running, climbing and fighting and generally behaving like the proverbial bull in a china shop whilst my friends' daughters would be quietly colouring away (he had zero interest in colouring as it involved keeping still). And they were very smug as though they were better parents. I then had a daughter and was able to join the smug group as she quietly played with her toys or read or coloured. However as previous posters have said, he was a dream once he got past 10 whereas at 10 girls are just revving up for the incessant arguing and falling out and excluding and whinging about each other so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

OP you need to meet my DD(8) she would make you feel much better.
Favourite activities include:
Wrestling
Rolling around on the floor
Getting mud on everything
Pretending to be a Ninja

I think I got a defective one

Got to say my very lovely active 4 year old does enjoy rough play a lot more than some other children so I have to keep an eye.

My 7 year old girl is mainly good as gold when we are out. But she is bloody hard work. And her behaviour overall is far worse than her brother

I have girl/boy twins. When they were younger it was like this. Wait until puberty - mums of girls pay big time then!