To be irritated by religious views...

[Frume]

I know I'll get flamed here. Of course it goes without saying that you are entitled to believe whatever you believe. And I understand that sometimes people turn to 'God' because that's their last hope. But..

My example that prompted me to write this...

I was on Instagram and catching up with a poor girl that I follow. She is 19 and has battled cancer 3 times. The page is updated by her mum and she says things like:-

'In Him we trust to heal his child'

'This is all part of His plan'

'He knows what he is doing'

Something good happens & then it's, 'God is good' or 'Thank you to Our Father in Heaven for making our prayers come true and healing his child'

Ok. Sure, that was it.. or probably science

The general 'Thoughts and prayers' when there is any kind of disaster. Because obviously that's all that's needed in a time of crisis.

Let people get on with it really

People have worshipped a god or two since they saw the sun. Yahweh/Jehova/The Lord is actually one of a whole bunch of God’s that was picked as the one true god.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

The above is an interesting wiki article about the historical origins of the Judaism / Christian god

We don't turn to God because he's our "last hope"
You are intolerant, so just stick to the maxim.. if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything.

Anyway I’m going, really can’t be bothered to read the oh so predictable posts telling me how wrong I am.

Sorry, this is absurd! What you mean is that religion should only be discussed by those who believe exactly the same thing. Because you are telling athiests that they are wrong. And you're also telling believers of every other religion on god's good earth () that they are wrong too! Religions make pretty remarkable claims, they all contradict each other, and they must be (at least) nearly all wrong!

Actually people used to worship the goddess or mother energy which makes more sense to me.

When people get healed they call it a miracle, yet in suffering they say God cant intervene.

Yawn.

www.sciencealert.com/people-who-pick-up-grammar-mistakes-jerks-scientists-find

A sample of 83.

I do think YABU in that particular situation, but I tend to agree about platitudes. As a Christian I struggle when I hear the 'everything happens for a reason' type sayings, especially applied to illness. I've had it applied to me because I struggle with chronic illness. I think we are all broken and living in a broken world, and experience God's love and ultimate hope within the brokenness without trying to excuse it or pretend it's not there. So I do get what you are saying. I think people say 'thoughts and prayers' very much as something to say when there are really no words. Some will even go away and pray about it and do practical stuff too, but the good intention is there, so I think we should try to remember that people are generally trying to be kind. And we need more kindness in this world.

I do get saddened by the 'religious people are smug' stereotypes often thrown around on these types of threads, though. The whole imaginary friend thing just makes me yawn a bit though, as does the sky fairy. It's not new and it's quite tedious really. But it doesn't offend me.

I do get saddened by the 'religious people are smug' stereotypes often thrown around on these types of threads

Good point Madhairday. It's never very helpful to construct strawmen to demolish. (And incidentally these would include the shouty atheists.)

You should believe in anything for which you have no evidence. Common sense really. But even if the Abrahamic god was shown to be real I still wouldn't worship him as he is vile monster unworthy of respect or devotion.

Brahumbug, you might be referring to this assessment of his attributes by atheist-in-chief, Richard Dawkins!

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

I don't think he's any nicer in his Islamic or Judaistic appearances. To be fair his son was mostly a very nice guy, proof that sometimes the apple can fall some distance from the tree

I’m a very happy, committed atheist.

Some aspects of religious opinion and action annoy me, especially not following medical science when it is available. But here’s what I’ve been thinking more and more as I get older.

It seems like many people need a moral code handed down by other people (or ‘gods’) to live nicely with others. They just can’t come up with their own rules of decent behaviour and stick to them. So I’m actually fine with the majority of folk being religious. Better than chaos, and everyone just doing what unethical idiocy they come up with themselves in any given moment.

I don’t personally have to believe there’s an angry daddy in the sky who will smite me if I steal or lie. I just decided to live without stealing and lying, as much as I can. But if Angry Daddy keeps people scared or awed into better behaviour around me, that generally works for me.

@FiddlesticksAkimbo

I would argue that atheist claptrap has done a lot of harm to people's souls.

As to Christianity not being able to defend itself - 2000 years of scholars and the Church Father's would like a word. I've been studying apologetics and there really isn't a question or aspect that hasn't been explored.

So I take it that I can call Atheistism smug, arrogant heathen bullshit (I would never do this - it's an example) ? Or would I be told not to judge and respect other people's views and force my religion on others? Is okay to force secularism on religious people?

Just got home from my priest washing and kissing my feet as part of Maunday Thursday. Not feeling too viewed as inferior at the moment.

I find it irritating/tedious/disappointing that every Easter there's an anti-religion thread on MN.

@Skittlesandbeer

So you feel superior to religious people who apparently have to have God to live a moral life? You don't need all that to live a moral life. Right.... It's a very shallow perspective on religion.

This doesn't explain any of the depth of people's religious beliefs and/or the striving for a loving relationship with God.

Hi whatisfred,

I remember that Maundy Thursday mass very well!

I would argue that atheist claptrap has done a lot of harm to people's souls.

The problem is you'd have to also lump us atheists in with hindus, muslims, rastafarians, satanists, believers in wotan and neptune. We all think that you're wrong, and we all live lives that will send us to hell by the teachings of your church

So I take it that I can call Atheistism smug, arrogant heathen bullshit (I would never do this - it's an example) ? Or would I be told not to judge and respect other people's views and force my religion on others? Is okay to force secularism on religious people?

Sorry, I missed this bit. Yes, please do go ahead! If you can back it up a little bit that might help to persuade people, but that's not a requirement in my book.

I'm with you OP. I actually think people who believe in God are a bit bonkers. Any God. I try not to show it and I'm respectful to people but always inside I'm thinking WTF, fictional character!

I think YABU.

I have buried a child. Thankfully, i didn’t have to watch them suffer through cancer, and I don’t know the particular pain of that situation, but I can imagine it a bit, and I can’t fathom anyone finding fault or picking at something as inocuous as mother who must surely be in torment posting something re her faith.

@WhatisFreddoingnow

What religious people do in the privacy of their own homes and hearts is really none of my business. Their depth of spiritual feelings doesn’t have any bearing on my life.

The topic was where religious folk and non-religious folk interact in the outside world, and how. So that’s what I commented on.

You go on and love who you like. The world needs more love. Unless your religion prohibits you from loving some groups, I suppose. My moral code doesn’t.

I don’t use the terms imaginary friend or sky fairy personally, because I know that Christians don’t like it. But when it comes down to it, that’s what God is. My dd has an imaginary friend when she was little who for her through some very hard times- she gave her confidence, and was very real to her. I suppose she gave her what God gives some people on here......

It's the vision of God as an old guy with a white beard who lives in outer space that's a major stumbling block to understanding religion. If you believe, you believe that you meet God every day in the friends, colleagues and strangers you encounter. The kindness of strangers if you like. Perhaps 'mindfulness' would be a better way to think than 'imaginary friend'.

We all think that you're wrong,
Hmm, the atheists I know don't think religious people are 'wrong'. Thankfully they have a more nuanced view than wrong/right. I think your intolerance and God complex is showing Fiddlesticks (which is ironic under the circumstances!).

“Is okay to force secularism on religious people?“ it depends what you mean. If you mean is it oK to stop religious people practising their religion in a way that does not impose on other people then of course it’s not. Is that what you’re asking?

Really don’t understand why atheists get so heated up about people who believe in God.

Quite frankly, it’s none of your business OP and following a 19 year with cancer on IG then come on here so you can belittle her Mum for praying for her daughter is just weird. If that what her own Mother wants to do to get through a living nightmare situation then who are you to judge?

Atheists spend their time criticising believers and come across vicious and nasty.... Dawkins being a prime example. It’s just weird.

Hi Skittles,

But if Angry Daddy keeps people scared or awed into better behaviour around me, that generally works for me.

I've got a lot of sympathy with your post. But it does rather depend on what rules the angry daddy comes up with. Some of them are just based on human empathy and would accord with rational moral philosophy anyway - don't kill, don't steal. Some of them seem to me ridiculous, but do no harm - eat fish on a Friday, pray five times a day.

However some are deeply damaging. Rules about the role of women for example. And rules about homosexuality and sex generally. They screw many people up very badly by being quite contrary to human nature and human empathy. This (amongst other worse things) is what I mean when I say that religious claptrap is highly damaging.

Hi Lillithsfamiliar,

We all think that you're wrong
Hmm, the atheists I know don't think religious people are 'wrong'. Thankfully they have a more nuanced view

I'm interested in this! The existence or otherwise of any gods seems to me to be an objective fact. I think they don't. Religious people believe that at least one of them does. In polite everyday discourse we may dodge that particular contradiction. But is it not actually quite simple. One of us is wrong!

But I'm very interested to understand the nuanced view if I can.