To be irritated by religious views...

[Frume]

I know I'll get flamed here. Of course it goes without saying that you are entitled to believe whatever you believe. And I understand that sometimes people turn to 'God' because that's their last hope. But..

My example that prompted me to write this...

I was on Instagram and catching up with a poor girl that I follow. She is 19 and has battled cancer 3 times. The page is updated by her mum and she says things like:-

'In Him we trust to heal his child'

'This is all part of His plan'

'He knows what he is doing'

Something good happens & then it's, 'God is good' or 'Thank you to Our Father in Heaven for making our prayers come true and healing his child'

Ok. Sure, that was it.. or probably science

The general 'Thoughts and prayers' when there is any kind of disaster. Because obviously that's all that's needed in a time of crisis.

@whatisfreddoingnow that’s similar to my perspective on god (I believe that god in non interventionist because it is up to us to make our lives good and the role of god is as a source of emotional, spiritual and metaphysical support to help us grow to be good). I meant more when people say it and mean it literally. Gets my back up. I want to ask them ‘if you truly believe god killed (even if in a purely physical sense) that child and put the child and their parents through suffering then why do you have faith in god at all if he is so cruel?’. People like to attribute suffering to positive acts of god which I find a bit sick.

I'm a Christian and was having a discussion with another Christian friend about whether God can simultaneously know all our futures and still give us free will. I don't have the answers to all the difficult questions but I know that I have personally experienced God and so I personally have proof He is real. I can't prove it to the atheists here though any more than they can prove to me He doesn't.

Babdoc. At least you didn't claim Paul met jesus. As for his conversion, his road to Damascus experience sounds more like a seizure. The gospels are also poor evidence given that they are anonymous. I have no problem with people believing what they want. I have a problem when they claim privileges for that belief, no criticism, religious schools etc.

There are all sorts of philosophical and theological discussions to be had about the nature of God, how He is inscrutable, how good comes out of tragedy, life is given meaning by struggle, the concept of free will, how we cannot even look after a handful of animals without having to kill some and they will never understand why, etc.

I do wonder why people think arrogant scorn and insults equips them to do this, and why this repeatedly, reliably gets brought up on MN at times of both reflection and celebration marked on, specifically, the Christian calendar.

I work in a scientific discipline and have a religion, and I don't think these two parts of human life collide in any significant way. Science has very little to say on matters of philosophy and theology, it is about furnishing the factual context in which we live, equally the faith, betterment of the self and spiritual nourishment of religion have little to say about scientific fact, beyond ethical matter. Life is complex, and these two magisteria do not need to impinge on each other at all.

I have no problem with people believing what they want. I have a problem when they claim privileges for that belief, no criticism, religious schools etc.

I'd agree with this. And I'd add that the world's great religions are possibly the most powerful ideologies ever to have existed in human history. In a liberal democracy we would be horrified at the idea that marxism, brexit or Uri Geller were beyond scorn or criticism. And for good reason: criticism helps us to establish the veracity of their huge claims, and scorn helps us to retain a healthy degree scepticism and not to be so easily taken in by charlatans. If christianity or islam can't defend themselves then I have even less respect for them!

“I believe that god in non interventionist because it is up to us to make our lives good and the role of god is as a source of emotional, spiritual and metaphysical support to help us grow to be good).“

So what is prayer for then? Does Matthew 7.7 just mean emotional, spiritual and metaphysical support? Do you believe in miracles?

Oh, I'm all in favour of people being allowed to believe any old nonsense they like. The problem is when they start inflicting their nonsense on others. Whether that's interfering in other people's relationships, dietary choices, clothing choices or bodily autonomy, or just making crass comments about your imaginary friend's 'purpose' to someone having a hard time, you need to mind your own fucking business. Sure, if it comforts you to takl to a sky fairy when troubled, that's your choice, but a lot of the superstitious are a bit too keen to come out with the 'everything happens for a reason' bullshit without giving a second's thought to whether or not it's going to be appreciated by the person in trouble.

"your imaginary friend" is a crass comment. One you are making on a published platform at other people.

I mean do that if you wish, but if it's a great I'll in your eyes perhaps you shouldn't do it yourself.

To be fair, religious claptrap has caused enormous amounts of harm directly in many people's lives. It is not an unalloyed force for good I'm afraid. So it's only to expected that people will be angry and dismissive about it.

As long as faith isn’t being used as a substitute for medical treatment what harm is it doing for a mother to lean on her faith to deal with her teenager having cancer for the third time? I have a lot more time for people who choose medicine and prayer than for example anti vaccination zealots.

Thing is, no one is obliged to care about your imaginary friends, or pretend to 'respect' them. People might do this out of kindness or courtesy to those they know, but there is absolutely no obligation, in general, to treat superstition as anything other than the irrelevant nonsense it it. I don't care whether you call your imaginary friend Jehovah, Allah, Big Booboo or your fairy godmother (and, for clarity, I regard the abrahamic myth systems, horoscopes, homeopathy and poltergeists as the same nonsense deseriving of the same indifference and derision).

I don’t use the terms imaginary friend or sky fairy personally, because I know that Christians don’t like it. But when it comes down to it, that’s what God is. My dd has an imaginary friend when she was little who for her through some very hard times- she gave her confidence, and was very real to her. I suppose she gave her what God gives some people on here......

Diety?

Thing is, no one is obliged to care about your imaginary friends, or pretend to 'respect' them. People might do this out of kindness or courtesy to those they know, but there is absolutely no obligation, in general, to treat superstition as anything other than the irrelevant nonsense it it. I don't care whether you call your imaginary friend Jehovah, Allah, Big Booboo or your fairy godmother (and, for clarity, I regard the abrahamic myth systems, horoscopes, homeopathy and poltergeists as the same nonsense deseriving of the same indifference and derision).

Yes, you have a right to be as rude and dismissive as you like, and people probably care a lot less than you might think, fine.

What doesn't make sense, however, is that you are irked by what you see as crass comments and how people should keep them to themselves when you are very actively making crass comments towards other people on the internet yourself.

I mean pick one.

Diety?

Fish on a Friday?

That has to be one of the worst memes I've ever seen! I can't actually work out whether it's pro- or anti-christian.

What doesn't make sense, however, is that you are irked by what you see as crass comments and how people should keep them to themselves when you are very actively making crass comments towards other people on the internet yourself.

Hi justarandomtricycle,

This is a very fair point, except I don't think that's what's being said at all! No one here is denying the right of religious people to say stuff (quote me the bit if I'm wrong). If anything it tends to be religions that want to shut down criticism (by blasphemy rules for example).

Both sides are of course entitled to get irritated by the other, and I take great delight in my grumpiness

I did not create the meme (haven't got the time) but this thread is such a cliché that there's many for me to choose from.

Here's another, the creator spelled the words correctly so you can focus your attention on this article filled with beloved science instead.

"Scientists have found that people who constantly get bothered by grammatical errors online have 'less agreeable' personalities than those who just let them slide."

www.sciencealert.com/people-who-pick-up-grammar-mistakes-jerks-scientists-find

Thing is, it's all about power and control. There's no difference, in terms of logic, in believing in the Abrahamic myth systems, the ancient Greek/Roman/Norse ones (which, by the way, have as much influence on European culture, at least, as the Abrahamic ones) - and believing in astrology, pixies, ghosts, etc. But the Abrahamic myths are the ones that have been used to build powerful institutions which perpetuate social control (the inferiority of women, the importance of obedience and submission to your 'betters').
So, yeah, some individuals find that having an imaginary friend and a comforting myth system makes them feel happier, and good luck to them. But it's actually very important to retain the right to say it's all bullshit, and to fight against it being used to drive laws and public policy.

Expressing your faith how exactly? On FB? Great. Knocking on my door? Nope.

Knocking on my door? Nope

And I've yet to encounter the door-to-door athiests!

I'd love to see the reaction in middle England to the door-to-door satanists

’I'd love to see the reaction in middle England to the door-to-door satanists’

Much the same as the one to those people who used to knock on asking you to change energy supplier.

YABU - very.

What I hate is the SMUGNESS that goes with most religion (not the Muslims, as far as I've observed, but all the rest). The "oooo, see how PERFECT I am....."

I’m a bit baffled why most religions bar Muslims seem smug. I’m a Catholic, but hardly anyone knows, I never brag about my religion or make out im “perfect” whereas Muslims are much more prominent (daily calls to prayers, clothes etc). more or less let everyone know what religion they are, more so than any other I’d have thought.

Always laugh at the “imaginary friend” remarks. So purposely insulting but also rather pathetic. Nothing at all “imaginary” about God, as everyone will find out one day. Anyway I’m going, really can’t be bothered to read the oh so predictable posts telling me how wrong I am.