To be irritated by religious views...

[Frume]

I know I'll get flamed here. Of course it goes without saying that you are entitled to believe whatever you believe. And I understand that sometimes people turn to 'God' because that's their last hope. But..

My example that prompted me to write this...

I was on Instagram and catching up with a poor girl that I follow. She is 19 and has battled cancer 3 times. The page is updated by her mum and she says things like:-

'In Him we trust to heal his child'

'This is all part of His plan'

'He knows what he is doing'

Something good happens & then it's, 'God is good' or 'Thank you to Our Father in Heaven for making our prayers come true and healing his child'

Ok. Sure, that was it.. or probably science

The general 'Thoughts and prayers' when there is any kind of disaster. Because obviously that's all that's needed in a time of crisis.

I think people who have faith do have "proof". My own faith comes and goes but there's loads of research to suggest that having faith is good for you and a lot of the old teachings make sense. I think I'm generally happier as a faithful person.

The 10 commandments for example are still what most of our sense of right and wrong is based around.

Religion has been badly misused to control populations (especially the poor and women) I agree but faith in itself is not the cause of that.

I have no religious beliefs at all (in fact my catholic MIL called me a heathen) but sometimes when life gets hard (I have had more than my share of tragedy, which is probably why I can't believe in a higher being) I actually envy people that have unwavering faith and devotion and can take such comfort from it.

Once you have proof of something, it is by definition no longer a religion, the two things aren't logically compatible.

Actually most wars are little to do with religion and more to do with power, money, oil and land ownership. Religious wars probably take up a miniscule amount in comparison.

Some people find comfort in hitting the bottle during hardship, some like to be very matter of fact and some rely on Faith. As long as they're not denying treatment out relying soley on Faith then I don't see nothing wrong in it.

out from

I suppose this woman has to hack though her life as she must, though an obvious thought is what kind of God plans cancer for a child? Not a reflection I would share with her, of course, but I get what the OP is saying.

Oddly, I thought little of the term RIP until my dear DH died and the celebrant wanted to say it. I vetoed it immediately; he did no bad things, loved his life and would have been so cross to be dead. I've never been able to see those words/abbreviations since without thinking of their implications.

I would never reprove someone for using them, but will never use them myself.

@MissPolly. Excellent post.

Keypot: I don't think the 10 Commandments are very helpful. Four of them are about worshipping God and things that you'd expect to be in there like not having slaves and not raping people are left out!

“The 10 commandments for example are still what most of our sense of right and wrong is based around.”
Really? 4 of them are about taking the knee to God......

Yikes. I think, on balance I spend more time thanking my God for the good things in my life than confronting him about the bad things. Thoughts and prayers have got me through the very toughest of times, not sure what else would have. Huge fan of science/medicine here but let's not pit them and faith against each other - they both have a place, a valid place.

This is a bit of a sidetrack but the weirdest thing I always think when I read threads like this on MN is how there’s always some sort of religion vs science comment made, as though they are opposites? Can you not be both? I’m religious (although Muslim so perhaps that’s different to the OP example which is clearly Christian) and believe in vaccinations, dinosaurs, the Big Bang etc etc. If my child was dying, I would do all I could possibly with medication etc but if I could do nothing more (which you essentially cannot with cancer at some point) I would accept that I’m not in control of the universe and would put my trust in God. When people say they’re leaving it to God or asking for prayers, all they’re doing is acknowledging that whatever they are battling is a lot bigger than they are. And when it comes to natural disasters, if you’re physically unable to help or give money in any way, than what else can you do other than keep them in your thoughts and hope it gets better?

I do think science and religion are incompatible.

A family member is a "born again Christian" and often quotes stuff from the Bible. I find the terminology such as 'I was saved' and 'Have you asked Jesus into your life?' very offputting. I'm apparently a sinner too.

Same with Spiritualists who sign cards 'with love and light'. What does that even mean? Giving you a message they say 'Can you take .......'. What do you want me to take? Where do you want me to take it to?

Yes, I get irritated but not by religion per se but with all the stupid terminology used. You shouldn't have to have a degree in religious terminology to understand what the heck they are saying before then deciding whether it's a viewpoint you can accept.

I do try and respect other people"s religious views and would never Mock the views of others. Although I dont consider myself particularly religious, I can accept some aspects of many different religions.

And sometimes science and medicine has failed. but something has gotten through how do you know it wasn't their faith. and actually how do you know it wasn't a lord they believed in.
Faith brings strength like no other to some people, and not to others .who's to say what works for one person has to work with the other but if it is helping them then good on them

@Stoatofdisarray actually not entirely true. Religion proved the world was round while people were still adamant it was flat.
There is lots of scientific facts in abrahamic faiths.

@kateandme this this this.

My friend has just lost her teenage daughter to cancer.

Frankly I couldn't give a rata arse what she finds comfort in to get her and her family through this, or the last two years of treatments etc.

Grow up and get over yourself...and stop following people of Instagram if you're going to be intolerant and bad mouthing them.

They're not opposed. But some atheists, and some religious people like to make out they are.
And the Christian church in general (though not all denominations and not for all of its history) has a bad track record when it comes to accepting and learning from mistakes, and acknowledging the sciences and humanities. So although many Christians are in full agreement with the broad modern consensus on science and lots of other things, it does us no harm to be reminded that some atheists might not be ready to forgive and forget. Humility!

I have no time for superstitious bullshit, either. In basically nice people, it's just a bit of silliness that happens to make them happy and no more of a big deal than shit taste in music or any other hobby that doesn't appeal to you. In less nice people, it can be a huge nuisance and dangerous as well as aggravating (people who think that their imaginary friend means they can hurt or harass you with impunity, etc).

I know some lovely people who happen to have imaginary friends, and I also know a ffew athiests who are tossers, so it's more about the person than the preferred choice of superstition, but it can be tiresome.

I find intolerance and strident atheism to be more offensive.

“Strident atheism”. Or, as I like to call it, “atheism”.

Notice you take a very keen interest in religion, Bertrand, you're always on any threads to do with it.

A very sad post that has disdain and holds judgement for what helps a mother get through her pain.

I'm a devout Catholic and never had an issue with science vs faith. I believe in vaccinations, scientific discoveries, big bang (first theorised by a Catholic priest!) and other scientific progressions. It's very narrow-minded to believe that if someone has faith, they must not believe in science.

If my child was ill, I would want all appropriate medical treatments used and I would also pray. It's not exclusive and the Church definitely doesn't ever recommend refusing medical treatments or advice.

“Notice you take a very keen interest in religion, Bertrand, you're always on any threads to do with it.”

Yes, it’s a particular interest of mine. Why is that relevant?

Oh, but there is a difference between strident atheism and common or garden atheism!

I have a faith and I have lots of friends who are atheists, but only one who is a strident atheist. The difference? With my other friends we understand and respect our differences. Sometimes we talk about them. With my SA friend, their social media posts are filled with belittling and intolerant content towards believers of any faith and I get singled out to justify all manner of beliefs. Not that it's worth my while even trying to answer as this friend is so convinced that whatever I say will be piffle.

They spend an awful lot of their life shaking a metaphorical fist at a god they don't believe in.

Shame really.

I suspect that you might be a bit like this too OP from the tone of your posts.

Live and let live!