Child neglect or something normal?

[MonaLisaDoesntSmile]

Not a party here, just something I noticed and wandered people's opinions.

So, when I went shopping today to a local to a local supermarket , as I went in I noticed a child (5-6 years old?) with a big shopping bag and an older lady talking to the child. I assumed they were together. At the tills the same old lady was agitated, complaining to the casshier and waving a phone around, saying she was about to call social services or whatever. Turned out the child was in the supermarket on their own, doing weekly shopping (the bag did look quite big and heavy), and apprently told the lady they lived a block or two away, and that their mother sent them to pick a couple of things. For the reference, I live in a city. The lady thought it was unresponsible of the mother to send child shopping unaccompanied when it's dangerous, they could get kidpanned or whatever, plus they had to carry the heavy bag on their own. But by the time she got the phone, the kid took the shopping they paid for and left and she was unhappy the supermarket staff did not think it approoprate to have alerted someone about it. The casshier was saying she saw the same kid shopping before on their own as well, but she deemed it normal.

That got me thinking- I was brought up in a large city myself, used to go back to school and come back on my own, there was nothing unusual with kids going shopping without parents (admittedly to pick a couple of things parents may have forgotten, not a weekly shop!), we spent a lot more time unsupervised in the play area. I do get things get more dangerous, plus there is an issue of how much the kid had to carry.

What is everyone's verdict- was the lady overreacting, or should it be something that would worry you?

I know times have changed but at 5 year old I was getting a bus to and from school on my own. At 6/7 I took my little brother to the shop in his pushchair. At 7 I took my nearly 5 year old sister to school and picked her up at home time, on 2 busses through the town centre, small town. When she had her 5th birthday she decided she was old enough to come home on her own rather than wait the half hour for me to finish. At 10 I was taking my 5 year old brother to the swimming baths.

Admittedly a long time ago but I don't see any reason why a young child shouldn't go to the local shops.

It’s interesting how attitudes to this sort of thing have changed over time. I’m nearly 40 and when I was >4, my aunt used to mind me while my parents were at work and would get me to go to the corner shop (which she could see from her kitchen window) for rolls. I LOVED doing that, because it made me feel so grown up!

A family story, which may be apocryphal, is that my grandma would send one of my uncles into town from the age of three (apparently he was good at recognising the bus numbers!) for certain bits of shopping. That would’ve been the 50s though, when children were sent out of a morning and told to come back for their dinner.

I agree with PPs who say the world isn’t more dangerous, we’re just more risk averse.

Not sure about this scenario. I personally wouldn’t let my six-year-old city dwelling child go to the shops alone, but not sure it constitutes actual ‘neglect’ if the parent perceived the child to be responsible. I definitely don’t think there are kidnappers lurking around every corner, but road safety might be an issue. It’s one of those situations where you’d need to know the bigger picture...

They're not allowed to walk home from school before Year 6 so 10/11 so that seems very very odd to me. Maybe contact the supermarket and ask them to take the matter seriously if the child comes again. She may be fine and loved, but the family might be struggling if she's having to do a shop.

I grew up in the 80s and pottered off on my bike for hours, back for tea etc... even bought ciggies for aunties off the Ice Cream Van etc when I was a kid... but probably not at those sort of ages so it's not me viewing things through a modern lens even.

Where I live (a London borough) we have 500 Young Carers on the register. Ages range from 5 years to 18 years.

I think kids need more freedom and responsibility. Look at the rise in teens mental health issues, I think it’s because kids are in luxury prisons, this leaves these poor kids with no confidence or life skills.

I think sending a 5 year old to go food shopping is going to increase likelihood of mental health issues as they get older. It’s all well and good giving kids more freedom, but for fun stuff and things to help them grow as a person. Expecting them to do household chores at reception age is utterly ridiculous.

Not expecting them to do household chores at reception age is far worse than expecting them to.

Shopping from a young age leads to mental health issues is a new one. Far more likely the confidence and resilience would be a positive than a negative.

Yes, household chores like helping to load laundry or putting dishes away after dinner. Not doing a bloody food shop in a supermarket! I can’t believe there are people that actually think this is ok?!

OP asked if lady WBU? She clearly wasn't, as I pointed out, it'd likely get reported (in our UK area). Our health, education and social care professionals would certainly be under a duty to report this if child's details were known. (A 5 year old doing family shopping in supermarket on their own).
And would likely cause concer/ be reported by members of the public. It is hard to judge ages. (It might be different in small island or other communities, or different countries).

It may turn out to be nothing (& part of a less usual thought out parenting strategy), or a young carer at age 5 who may be entitled to assessment and support offers; or a genuine flag for a neglectful situation at home. Those enquiries might just amount to a log made, or a couple calls to child's school and GP surgery, or a wellbeing check /call to home.

Primary (infant) school children aren't let out from school classroom without an adult who shows self at collection time (or a negotiation for an older sibling) until KS2 in our area. Children grow up here perfectly independently, they just aren't pushed to grow up early.

There's much that has changed, as what might have been acceptable even 30 years ago, might not be acceptable now. I remember the change at my infant school when headmaster was no longer allowed to use the belt/ruler as punishment. That'd be called abuse /assault these days.

my Mum sent me to buy her fags and a list of other things (written down on a piece of paper) when I was 7 and I managed to do it.

my mum use to do this aswell. send my 5 year old brother to the shop with a note for fags. It involved crossing a couple of road. She was never reported though this was early 2000s

Way too young to be going alone to the supermarket imo.

My son is 5 and no way would I send him to the shop alone Anything could happen to him

The lady was not unreasonable and I am shocked that people think this is ok.

My 5 year old can’t cross a road safely! I find it shocking to be honest that at his age I could expect him to go shopping. An 11 year old maybe but 5-6 is waaaaaaaayyyy too young in my opinion.

Are you sure they were only 5 or 6? I'm pretty short (5ft and a bit of change) and have always been. I was only 4ft1 when I started high school and there were plenty 7 and 8 year olds the same height/ taller. Could they have just been a short/ youthful 9 or 10 year old?

“They’re not allowed to walk home from school before year six”? That is nonsense. Children are encouraged to get to and from school before year six on their own where I live - inner London. And that could mean on the bus as well as walking. The child could easily be much older than five or six . One of my dc was the size of a six year old at age ten. And perhaps they are a young carer.

MustardScreams - I also can't believe people think this is ok. It's really crazy and I've been silently screaming at this mumsnet thread for a while!!

It is NOT, repeat NOT ok for a 5 year old to be out food shopping by him/herself in a supermarket a couple of blocks from home!!!! It is NOT ok!! ok?!! :)

Ahhhh rant over!!

And I still don't get why everyone is saying 'its ok they are probably a young carer'! NO - it's not ok!!!! Being a young carer absolutely does NOT mean it's ok to be placed in a vulnerable position. Being a young carer does not mean you should be neglected and left open to harm. If anything, we need to protect our young carers and notice when too much or something unsafe and risky is being asked of them / put on them.

I have a dd almost 6 and I often get flack as I will leave her home a few mins. I wouldn't send her shopping ever. Even to corner shop as roads to cross and she would buy 90 bars of chocolate

I've RTFT and commented a couple of times, but can't recall how many (if they were as I recall only one) PPs saying it's ok if s/he may be a young carer.

I referred to a possibility of young carer as right to assessment/falls under CSD referral, in my post as that is legislation. And a reason to assess and look at child's welfare needs as well as what they are being asked to support with.

But don't misread me, if anyone is! A 5 year old being sent out alone to do supermarket shopping, isn't something CSD nor ASD would be best pleased with.

Think it's bloody awful sending a kid for weekly shopping or any shopping far to young and what was wrong the mother cldnt go herself neglect springs to mind

No one knows the child is 5.

I don't think a 5year old could carry the weekly shop

If any parents are out there are asking their children to do young carer tasks for them, as they are disabled, please be aware your children under 16 are entitled to support and assessment as a Young Carer. And that the Care Act 2014 includes a degree of overlap related to this.

Can I just say and I'm sure it's already been said, the child could be way older than 5 or 6. There is one boy in year 7 at my step daughters school that is the same height as my 6 year old (who isn't above average height either) and several kids in year 6 at his primary that could easily pass for much much younger.

Thank you for all the replies. I feel a bit bad for not reacting, but I didn;t pay attention to the child until they were gone. They may have been slightly older than 5/6, and obviously it was not a weekly shop, but a big bag which looked pretty full.

I think it just made me wonder how attitudes changes, as I think when I was growing up, no one would bat an eyelid for this, but I would never think of sending my child at this age to nearby shops on their own.

Made me think of a documentary showing how kids get to school in different countries, with a dad in Autralia dropping off and picking up his teenage daughter every day, and a Japanese kids in Tokyo who were shown travelling 1,5 hours on a train at the age of 10 there and back on their own (and parents saying something along the lines- of they get lost, they need to develop skills how to cope and find their way).

There was a lady on here that lives in another country and her 5 or 6 year old had to walk to school alone and back through snow and the woods for a good distance I think a mile or more maybe, and that was the norm in her country. So although I agree a child of 5 or 6 should definitely not be shopping alone, in some countries children are doing far more than that even.