To think that plane seats are WAY too small?

[HennyPennyHorror]

I've just flown long haul...a 7 hour and then a 12 hour journey.

I am a small person, short and light....about a size UK10. It was AGONY. My back hurt and my legs hurt and I was so uncomfortable on the 12 hour stretch that I thought I'd go loopy.

I really felt for the man next to me who wasn't at all fat but was a very big guy....tall and with huge shoulders and all that. He was obviously worse off than me....how on earth do people who're larger cope? It must actually hurt them?

I think having three seats together as they do on Emirates is awful...and that as people are now larger than ever, they should seriously consider making them bigger.

Why should people who are larger be discrimated against I'm quite large but why do i have to fork ouk more for a seat that i can fit in?. They ought to have varing seat sizes allocated on a need basis!.

You get what you pay for, sure your choices are restricted to your budget but it’s exactly the same for anything be it plane seats, hotel rooms, restaurants, cars, houses and on. You want more comfort for less money, so does everyone, but as long as airlines are complying with the regulatory authorities who establish seat size, legroom etc you have no grounds for grievance with them.

I think they could lose a few rows and spread the cost amongst the remaining passengers, it wouldn't need to add very much to the cost of a flight.

This is one of the most sweetly naive things I have ever read on MN.

It depends on the airline, I find. I’ve flown 12hr+ on Singapore Airlines A380s several times and been very comfortable in economy. Same with Emirates. Longhaul with BA was horrendous, wouldn’t fly with them again (but conversely their shorthaul fleet is more comfortable than a lot of the charter flights I’ve been on).

Airlines should have to declare seat size/legroom for a flight at booking so that consumers can make an informed choice.

@BuzzWeak whatever....

I'm fine hun, and YOU OK hun?

HUN.

I’m quite small and light too. The Aer Arann commuter plane seats are uncomfortable plus tightly fitted in. I feel sorry for passengers over 5ft4.

It's not just the size, it's the lack of legroom and personal space! You can't sit comfortably without disrupting someone else and the seats are just so hard and unsupportive.

You can certainly tell who the over privileged individuals are on this thread.

'Just pay more.............'

Jesus wept!

Some people are utterly clueless about what life is like for many people.

I have never seen so much ignorant, ill-informed shit on one thread!

Does anyone have experience of Virgin Atlantic Economy Delight vs Premium Economy, i.e is it worth it? (The oracle that is Google does not supply an answer)

Seat pitch is 34 vs 38, but is this really needed for a 5ft 3 and a 5ft 7?

@NakedAvenger

@damnthatoneistakenagain I can't afford to fly first class or business but I'm not a precious snowflake who can't hack sitting in a perfectly comfortable seat, watching films and being served food and drinks usually on request. I get on with it like most people. It's a tiny sliver of my life to amazingly get to the other side of the world fast, safe and frankly, in relative comfort.

Have you actually bothered to read a SINGLE WORD of this thread? FFS!

People have been saying they are NOT COMFORTABLE.

RTFT!

There is a strong vibe on here of ... 'If you can't afford better/first class seats, it serves you right for being poor! You should have worked harder in school. Stay squashed and uncomfortable you grotty peasants'

Why? Being unable to afford better things doesn't make someone a peasant, grotty or otherwise, and no-one's even suggested it serves anyone right. Realistically there'll always be those who can afford more than others ... FWIW I can't easily afford first class, but instead of whining about it I book extra legroom, a different route or whatever

In the real world we can't always have exactly what we want exactly as we want it - and that even applies to the very rich

Economy class seats in most of BA's A319s, A320s and A321s have less legroom than Ryanair.

It's a choice all passengers make - an expensive one - but it is still a choice

Since most people can't afford 1000s just for 1 seat its hardly a "choice".

Airlines should have to declare seat size/legroom for a flight at booking so that consumers can make an informed choice.

They generally do have this info [somewhere] on their website, but I can also recommend external sites like SeatGuru to help you make informed choices when planning. This is the info for seat pitch on BA, for example:
www.seatguru.com/airlines/British_Airways/fleetinfo.php

And here's a random seat map, which gives tons of info and tips: www.seatguru.com/airlines/British_Airways/British_Airways_Airbus_A319_D.php

Last time I did long haul, I checked in as soon as the airline app said it was available with the intent to get a nicer seat. There were four different types of economy-but-better seats and by the time I'd worked out which was what they'd all gone! Lesson learned, check this stuff out beforehand next time. www.seatguru.com/ is the place to look.

... So what I did in the end was say "fuckit" and paid for business class, which almost doubled the price of the flight. Was pretty lush though, our first time, and meant we got off to a running start when we hit our other-side-of-the-world destination.

Flew back in normal economy, wasn't too bad as it turned out but I didn't regret the extra money. KLM.

We flew to Australia in 2010 via Singapore (12 hours/ 8 hours) in an Airbus A380, economy. I am a size 16 but, while I wouldn't say I was 'comfortable', it wasn't horrific at all!

Another option which is becoming increasingly common is the paid upgrade option/bidding system.

All airlines vary on how and if they have such a thing. It's often made available a while before your flight, you might see it on the website or via an email. And/or you an ask about it at ticketing desks at the airport. You can get upgrades for a lot cheaper than paying for that upgraded class to start with (but obvs it's not guaranteed etc)

That was actually how I travelled long haul business for the very first time. We'd paid about £500 economy and put in a one-time only "sealed bid" of about £600 and it was accepted.

Some people will sit on those 19hr Perth flights and not move at all. Whose fault is that?

It is actually really hard on lots of long haul flights to move in economy. The seats and especially legs space are very small, so there is not the room to move in the seat. And getting out and walking about is often difficult because of trolling going up and down the aisle and seatbelt signs on. Some airlines admit to putting seatbelt signs on when it is not necessary, to keep people in their seats.
I tend to go to the toilet fairly often just to stretch my legs. But if everyone went as often as I did the plane could not cope. Planes are designed in economy for passengers to stay in their seats.
I am not at high risk of a DVT, but I am not surprised they happen. And I know there is research to show they happen far more frequently asa result of long haul flights than the official stats show.

The problem is that comfort depends a lot on build and where you carry your size.

I can imagine a larger person with larger hips and thighs may struggle with the arm rest. I am more tummy narrow hips, so that is not the issue.

Long legs are a nightmare - my knees touch the seat in front before they even think about reclining.

The biggest problem I have is broad shoulders. Even though I can fit in the seat to sit, my shoulders are generally broader (and that is as a women so I don't know how the men manage) than the seat, so I would overhang the seat and have to keep my shoulders folded in. Not too bad for a short flight, but horrid on longer plane journeys.

@LagunaBubbles

Since most people can't afford 1000s just for 1 seat its hardly a "choice".

Excatly. Such ignorant and classist remarks!

I don't begrudge anyone being rich or flying in luxury (and I am sure most others don't either!) But coming out with bullshit like 'people have a choice and can pay more if they wish' is just ignorant and repugnant.

Also I use seat guru. But I have also booked long haul flights where they have Used airplanes supplied by other companies. So no you do not know what you are getting always until you get there. And in my case the room in seats was much less than the airliners own planes. Plane sharing like this is not uncommon.
And if I had to go business class, I would still never have been abroad. Business class is for people whose firms are paying or the well off.

Also people are getting bigger. And that is not just fat, but also long legs, broader shoulders, etc. So to have reduced the size of seats is madness.
And to have seats in the size they used to be just a few years ago would not cost the passenger as much as a premium economy upgrade.

Also I use seat guru. But I have also booked long haul flights where they have Used airplanes supplied by other companies. So no you do not know what you are getting always until you get there. And in my case the room in seats was much less than the airliners own planes. Plane sharing like this is not uncommon

I disagree. Swapping planes in at the last minute is a massive PITA for any airline - different seats, class configuration, crew facilities, crew requirements, pilot ratings, sometimes even gate requirements and landing facilities etc. You can't just swap in and out on a whim. Barring some very sudden unknown issue, passengers would almost always know what exact model plane they were travelling on in advance.

Code-sharing is a different thing. Where one airline sells tickets on a different airline's machines. But that is always stated somewhere during booking and/or ticketing. e.g. "American Airlines 123" to Hamburg is actually operated by "Lufthansa 456"

And then wet leasing is another entirely different thing too, whereby an airline pays another one to completely take over a route for a specified period of time. Most notably BA wet leased a number of Qatar planes, for example. So BA passengers on BA flights were flying Qatar planes with Qatar crew and pilots (and that came with a whole host of its own issues too).

@amandacarnet can I see your maths please? I’d love to know how increased seat size (back to the yesteryears of 20 years ago) wouldn’t pass on a premium to customers beyond the currently available upgrade fee that would put you in premium economy.

Remember fuel costs more now, taxes are higher for most routes, as are airport costs, compliance with regulation and the like and obviously no airline wishes to reduce profit.

And yet flying continues to become cheaper and cheaper. That’s what the market demands.

It was plane swapping I experienced.
I know about code sharing, but I would say some booking sites and airlines are much more upfront about code sharing than others. It may always be in the conditions somewhere, but no it is not always obvious.
I do choose who I fly with and do pay a bit more for a better airline. But I also fly places at times where if you are going long haul and direct, you may have no choice over who you fly with without changing the dates you fly. And that is rarely possible for me as booking annual leave for DP that fits in with my work, is already difficult.