To think that plane seats are WAY too small?

[HennyPennyHorror]

I've just flown long haul...a 7 hour and then a 12 hour journey.

I am a small person, short and light....about a size UK10. It was AGONY. My back hurt and my legs hurt and I was so uncomfortable on the 12 hour stretch that I thought I'd go loopy.

I really felt for the man next to me who wasn't at all fat but was a very big guy....tall and with huge shoulders and all that. He was obviously worse off than me....how on earth do people who're larger cope? It must actually hurt them?

I think having three seats together as they do on Emirates is awful...and that as people are now larger than ever, they should seriously consider making them bigger.

I’ve just done 11 hours on a Dreamliner in economy. They are more spacious than BA or Virgin planes.
It wasn’t uncomfortable at all.

Totally agree seats are way too small on planes, trains, buses, eveywhere. I'm slim but have long legs. God knows how really tall people manage. And those with joint problems and other disabilities really suffer. People will never take to public transport unless they upgrade things.

But OP you do realise that it costs money to buy planes, pay the staff, fill it with fuel, purchase food and drinks, buy the spot at the airport etcetc. And they make money by charging people money to fly? If they make the seats bigger then then they have to charge more as they can't fit as many people in. Basic stuff. Your ticket would then be more expensive. Probably PRemium Economy costs... because that's exactly what it is. Slightly bigger economy.

OP this is a bit like saying 'my Mini Metro is very uncomfortable and slow. I can't afford a BMW but is it too much to ask to get to my destination in a modicum of comfort? Mini Métros should be BMW's'

Buzz that's a ridiculous attitude. I live abroad....because that's where my work is. Yes it was a choice but people make choices all the time and I have as much right as someone richer, to expect that my expensive ticket will offer a modicum of comfort.

Ok, (genuine, not goady), what changes would you want to see? That are realistic across an entire fleet and won't slam profits and would have a material impact on a 12hr flight, I mean. Economy is a bearpit in terms of lowest cost wins, so you need to keep prices low enough to be competitive, but offer something extra to get people to choose you? Economy travellers (as a cohort) prefer to pay less and accept they get less.

Bear in mind that tiny changes can have massive impacts, e.g. www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-American-Airlines-saved-40-000-in-1987-by-eliminating-one-olive-from-each-salad-served-in-first-class

There is a wider and quite interesting argument on the effect budget carriers have had. On one hand they have opened up the market immeasurably, while blurring the lines between traditional and budget airlines. On the other, their unbundling of everything has made the race downwards even more harsh. Quite recently I note that BA is implementing ADDING another column of seats to some routes - that is undoubtedly a nod to the fact some budget carriers have got away with even smaller seats. People will still pay BA prices though, which is the stupid thing (they've also changed the catering on short haul to PAYG M&S stuff)

Some flights in Asia I nearly had to ask for the belt extender

But yes, long haul is horrid. I’m 5’11 and uk size 16.
It’s so uncomfortable I don’t know how real tall people manage.

Last time I went long haul I vowed it was my last in economy, unfortunately I think it’s like child birth and you forget the pain so stupidly do it again.

someone needs to do some investigation into how this has impacted people's health

I take your point, but if there was any evidence of folk dropping like flies after a flight I'm pretty sure there'd be more attention paid

Yes there are occasional cases of DVT, etc but on the whole discomfort - while unpleasant - is a temporary thing, and like others I'd rather suffer it for a while than not be able to fly at all because of higher costs

Buzz - genuinely interested as you seem to know about this - what about blood clots or 'softer' injuries, things like my DH neck. Is there research into that.

Blood clots and the like are overwhelmingly due to the person not taking active care of their own selves. Airlines can only do so much - provide information, in seat exercises, videos and suggestions to move about on long flights. Ultimately the passenger needs to risk-assess and take some responsibility - before, during and after the flight. Especially as we move towards longer and longer non-stop travel. Some people will sit on those 19hr Perth flights and not move at all. Whose fault is that?

Unfortunately the outliers - such as very tall people like your husband, don't fit into the standard airline passenger template, which is a bulk transport of "average" (sorry, you know what I mean!) people from A to B.

Which usually means paying extra to have "non-average" needs accommodated. You may get bumped to e.g. extra legroom at check in, but that's discretionary, not a right.

and I have as much right as someone richer, to expect that my expensive ticket will offer a modicum of comfort.

No you don't. You get what you pay for, which is a cheap seat. Just because you are uncomfortable doesn't mean the rest of us should have to pay through the nose, which we would if the amount of seating were reduced.

Economy travellers (as a cohort) prefer to pay less and accept they get less

Yes, this ^^ And while I appreciate many can't afford to upgrade, there was a time in living memory when hardly anyone could afford to fly at all

Times change, and not every aspect gets better overall

Short haul I don't much care about (anything up to 4 hrs). Any longer than that and I won't go unless I can lie down!!

You can make long haul flights significantly better by doing the following:
-dress comfortably in layers

• bring a soft tote bag with the above cardi type layers and a change of clothes and your important bits. This goes under the seat in front and you can rest your legs on it which is heavenly. Plump up with airline pillows if necessary.

-bring a plump cushion (for sitting on if its a hard seat, lower back support or for leaning against a window). It should fit easy in the aforementioned tote bag for transporting -get up every 45 minutes, walk and stand for the next 15. Touch your toes, calf raises etc. Don't worry about your neighbour, it's crucial

• Get Bose Noise canx headphones (other headphones are available)
• every second time you get up for a walk, walk to the galley and ask for a glass of water and a Gin and Tonic.

-spend an hour doing beauty treatments. One of them paper face masks, face wipes, oils, serums, creams. You have the time and it feels v luxurious and your skin will thank you

• fly in business if the above doesn't work.

I do NZ to UK three or four times a year via Dubai or Doha, which means one 17 hour flight and one 7 hour flight.

I travel economy which is around 1000GBP, if I flew business it would cost me three or four times that - so the choice is mine. If you want more space you have to pay for it ---- just like owning a bigger car, larger choice etc.

larger house not choice!

I would pay a little more to go back to how the seats used to be.

Try being 6'4'! In normal Easyjet / Ryanair about 1.5 hours is my absolute limit. I'll only fly long haul economy if I can sit in the front row with extra leg room.

But then you're beside toilet the whole time and have to put up with people standing in your space / on your feet the whole time.

Premium economy is what I would ideally fly but with 3 people is getting too expensive.

-get up every 45 minutes, walk and stand for the next 15. Touch your toes, calf raises etc. Don't worry about your neighbour, it's crucial

hahaha as if that's possible if everyone does this in the narrow isles in a 11 person (3-5-3) row.

When we flew to the States a few years ago, we upgraded to Main Cabin Extra on American Airlines. It was £80 each seat and to be honest, it was so worth it. We had loads of legroom and space, and I didn't feel claustrophobic at all.

Coming back overnight in BA economy on a 747 was horrific. Dh is 6ft 2 and could barely move his legs when we got off. I'd never fly that far again in economy - in fact, the whole experience has put me off ever doing it again in whatever class.

Thankfully I have never been in a 3-5-3 row green - I thought 3-4-3 was bad enough.

What route uses that configuration? I need to avoid it.

I had DVT. From an ankle injury. It was found and I was due to travel 17hrs non stop then an immediate 10 hours back to London in economy in the next week. Doctor was totally happy with me flying and said 'you don't get Clots from flying you get Clots from not moving your leg muscles so the blood ends up pooling' and instructed me to, as I recommend above, walking/exercising every 45 minutes. Not just on planes but at work, at home, bars restaurants etc, anywhere you sit for extended periods.
As a PP says above its lack of awareness and self care that could increase DVT on planes. Not the flight itself.

We flew economy to USA on a virgin dreamliner last year. I'm a size 22 and it was actually quite roomy and the seat belt fitted fine. The seats were quite thin and hard though. We are flying to JFK on an airbus this summer though so not sure how that will compare.

I will never be able to afford premium or business so it will have to do.

get up every 45 minutes, walk and stand for the next 15. Touch your toes, calf raises etc. Don't worry about your neighbour, it's crucial

hahaha as if that's possible if everyone does this in the narrow isles in a 11 person (3-5-3) row. of course its possible.
On my first journey to Australia I didn't move and had such a shock when I saw the size of my ankles. It actually scared me. Since then on long haul I always move. I go by the galley or by the drinks machine but some where theres a but if space and do ankle and leg exercises. I am definitely not the only one either.

I'm 5'2, 9 stone & luckily find plane seats quite comfortable. My DH is 5'9, 11 stone and he finds them comfy enough too.

We must be the exception!

I was upgraded last time I flew longhaul and it was heavenly. I slept, stretched out, most of the way (I have never slept in economy). A person heading to economy was incredibly rude to me as I was sorting my stuff out and she wanted to get passed. I nearly snapped at her and then thought - no, be kind. My experience of the next 7 hours was going to be much better than hers.

It's the claustrophobia for me too. Particularly one Monarch flight where it was so claustrophobic that i couldn't look up at all. Then in the return journey we were in the seats in front of the bulkhead, it was so tight in leg room that my dh couldn't sit down properly and therefore not fasten his seatbelt. Cabin crew gave not one shit.

Coming back overnight in BA economy on a 747 was horrific

IME flying anywhere with BA is horrific now - especially if you get one of their ancient aircraft. I'm doing Texas on an old 747 in August, but only because it's the only carrier which does non-stop on that route (granted there's Norwegian, but they look like going bust)

At least I've managed to upgrade this time, for all the good it'll do me ... last time I did that with them the seat was completely broken