To be puzzled about what is fair when it comes to bank holidays and childminder

[MotherOfDragonite]

I am really confused about bank holidays, and don't know what is fair in this situation. Essentially, the childminder wants to be paid for bank holidays when she is off. But my own employer won't be paying ME for bank holidays, so I would end up very out of pocket.

My DD goes to a childminder on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. She's very happy and the childminder is very good. We didn't discuss things like this before we started definitely a mistake on my part and there was no contract. My DD will be leaving at the end of September to go to nursery. We have 5 bank holidays (all on MY days) between now and then. I pay roughly £55 a day.

I also didn't discuss it with my employer. I only work two days a week for them, and these days are Monday and Friday (their choice). They don't really know what to do about bank holidays and have suggested that I should get some pro rated bank holidays and then perhaps make up the others by working on a different day. On the Tuesday I study for a course I'm taking, and also do paid freelance work. So it's not really a 'spare' day that I can shift things to without losing money there too.

I'm not sure what is fair to the CM. I totally recognise that she deserves bank holidays too, but as a parent who does Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays I feel I would be bearing the brunt of the cost when other parents aren't. If I did Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays I would never have this situation at all! As it is, I will be losing £275.

What would be a fair solution here?

@CallMeRachel I'm not confused, you are! My DD goes to a childminder, as I said, and she's Ofsted registered. I was just replying to another poster about other kinds of childcarers who don't have to be Ofsted registered. I think I've been pretty clear about my own set up though.

As a compromise, if you pay for the bank holidays could she provide days of care in lieu on other days. This might be useful for your studies or attending appointments.

If you are paying for a day of care then you should get that, even if not a Monday.

The thing is you are saying if you were full time then it wouldn’t be a problem, but it’s because you are part time it’s a problem. The CM doesn’t care whether you are FT or PT, she has this in her ‘contract’ so that’s what you agreed to when you enrolled your child.

What’s the reason behind you not having a contract? I would have thought it was the first thing to be given, read, agreed and signed, just like you do for everything else.

She just didn't give me a contract, and I never really thought about it. She gave me her Ofsted registration and first aid certificate etc. I did have a contract with the last childminder I used, and I should have chased it! But the last childminder had one because she wanted all of her holidays and sick days paid, and about 3 months notice of leaving, so it was definitely in her interests to get me to sign up to it!

I guess subconsciously I probably assumed that this childminder was more straightforward and didn't have a contract specifying this stuff because she didn't ask for it.

Why have you not got a contract!! I'd be asking for one pronto.

Childminders can set their own but they need to be agreed in advance in the contract. I used to pay mine 50% for bank holidays, I still had to pay when my child was ill but not when CM was which was very rare.

Holidays, was 50% when she was away but we used to align our holidays so I didn't have to find alternative care. But my childminder was ace and went above and beyond for me.

The normal way for employers to manage bank holidays for part-time work is to calculate them pro-rata. So if someone only ever works on Mondays and Fridays then they are working 40% of the normal working week. Each time there's a bank holiday the employee is "entitled" to 40% of it "for free" but the other 60% should come out of the annual leave allowance (lots of part time workers have annual leave calculated hourly rather than in whole days to help with things like this.

Translating this to your situation - you are employing the childminder 3 days a week which is 60% - I think it would be perfectly reasonable to expect to pay for 60% of the bank holiday day so her offer that you pay for one and not the other (50:50) is a split which is more favourable to you.

That's interesting glitterbiscuits I never knew that,
I was an ex Ofsted registered childminder (I used the NCMA/PACEY contracts) for quite a while
(so various inspections over the years, and due to a parent wanting to know what Ofsted's view would be on something that happened between the 'minded children one day, given actions at one point, which was over turned in the end, due to the Inspector not knowing her mandatory requirements adequately, that's another story however)
not once, from what I can remember, were my contracts looked at.

Getting back to BH and holidays being paid for, I never charged for these as I didn't want to work BH and only worked term time.
And to be honest couldn't be arsed to have the conversation which inevitably comes up, "if your not working why should I pay you?"

Parents did however, pay for for their holidays, illness etc
But I never charged for mine.
As has been said by previous posters up thread, we all have different T&Cs
This is why you MUST have a contract,
And you MUST read ALL the small print, yes I know that can take a while, but if you Childminder is any good, she won't mind if you want to take it home to read.

And then, only if you've understood T&Cs etc, if there something your not sure of ask. Then sign.
Simple really

Oh and Childminders are self employed, they provide a services, you do not employ them.

I’m also an employment lawyer and the issues raised in @Level75 post are more likely to be eliminated if there is a written contract. I’d ask for one ASAP.

My friends’ ex childminder actually sued them for unfair dismissal (and won!) after they gave her notice because the children no longer needed her. It’s very rare but you absolutely need a contract to minimise the risk of it happening.

Paying self employed people for holidays is risky though IMO when they aren’t statutorily entitled to it. I personally wouldn’t do it - but I would agree a higher hourly rate.

Why are you not paid for bank holidays

You need to look at your employment terms as well. I’m part time I get a proportion of the bank holidays I don’t work as holiday and those that fall on my days as holiday

I don’t understand why it’s not included in your contract with your work

There's a statutory minimum holiday entitlement for workers, but that doesn't have to include bank holidays -- that's up to the employer.

So I have more than the minimum holiday entitlement, but I don't get bank holidays on top of that -- as my workplace closes on bank holidays, I would have to either move my working day, give up my pay for that day, or take a day of my annual leave (even if I would rather use it elsewhere).