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Original poster

To be puzzled about what is fair when it comes to bank holidays and childminder

112 replies

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 20:52

I am really confused about bank holidays, and don't know what is fair in this situation. Essentially, the childminder wants to be paid for bank holidays when she is off. But my own employer won't be paying ME for bank holidays, so I would end up very out of pocket.

My DD goes to a childminder on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. She's very happy and the childminder is very good. We didn't discuss things like this before we started definitely a mistake on my part and there was no contract. My DD will be leaving at the end of September to go to nursery. We have 5 bank holidays (all on MY days) between now and then. I pay roughly £55 a day.

I also didn't discuss it with my employer. I only work two days a week for them, and these days are Monday and Friday (their choice). They don't really know what to do about bank holidays and have suggested that I should get some pro rated bank holidays and then perhaps make up the others by working on a different day. On the Tuesday I study for a course I'm taking, and also do paid freelance work. So it's not really a 'spare' day that I can shift things to without losing money there too.

I'm not sure what is fair to the CM. I totally recognise that she deserves bank holidays too, but as a parent who does Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays I feel I would be bearing the brunt of the cost when other parents aren't. If I did Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays I would never have this situation at all! As it is, I will be losing £275.

What would be a fair solution here?

OP posts:
Silvanna · 15/04/2019 21:21

That's what contracts are for...
They should include all the agreements between parents and childminder regarding bank holidays, childminder's sick leave, annual leave, etc.
It varys from childminder to childminder because some can be more flexible than others. They are self employed and to me it makes sense that if the bank holiday falls on the day that the child is normally looked after, they should be paid because they still have to pay for their bills/ insurance etc.

Original poster
MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 21:28

I do see what you mean @Silvanna and agree it is fair for them to be paid, but as it only comes out of my days it starts to feel less fair than if we were full-time, if you see what I mean!

OP posts:
Toothlessismyspiritanimal · 15/04/2019 21:32

My childminder charges 50% for bank hols and for her holidays and our holidays. Effectively it's her holiday allowance. But she did make me aware before we started. This is usual, but agree you should have been told.

Pumpkintopf · 15/04/2019 21:32

Surely if she's asking you to pay it should be also that you could still drop your child off to be minded? If on the other hand she's making the decision to close for the day, you shouldn't have to pay.

Same with her summer break- if you take holiday when she's open you usually have to pay (some cms will allow you to pay half for a certain number of weeks) whereas if she's closing for her holidays you shouldn't have to pay for those weeks.

Original poster
MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 21:32

Also of course there's no obligation for employers to pay employees for bank holidays. So lots of people who aren't childminders won't be being paid themselves either.

OP posts:
JustTwoMoreSecs · 15/04/2019 21:40

Is she available to mind your DC on the bank holidays? That would be the key for me.
She is not your employee, so you don’t owe her any holiday pay, therefore in the absence of a contract the rule should be service=pay so if she is not available then she doesn’t get paid.

marcopront · 15/04/2019 21:41

This seems a little different as I am really losing out much more as the bank holidays all fall on my days. And also I don't get paid for them myself.

Why does it matter to your child minder that you are not paid for bank holidays? You aren't paid on Tuesdays either but you pay her for those.

All bank holidays are Mondays, so isn't this something you should have discussed earlier?

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 21:43

I wouldn't expect to pay for bank holidays, and I would expect the childminder to calculate her normal rate to take into account the fact that she won't be paid for bank holidays and her own holiday times. I would expect to pay for 'my days' when I happen to be on annual leave, or if the child is ill, or whatever, because that's on me, not her.

BritInUS1 · 15/04/2019 21:44

You should get 2/5 of the holidays that a full time person would get

You then get paid on bank holidays as you take a days leave the same as everybody else

Original poster
MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 21:44

I'm wondering (a) what's normal, and (b) what's fair.

Yes, I should have made sure there was a contract!

OP posts:
Pumpkintopf · 15/04/2019 21:44

Basically however this should have all been made clear in the contract that she should have signed with you when you started so you both knew where you stood.

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 21:48

For your own work, yes it's normal to get bank holidays pro-rata. In your situation, I'd think it makes sense to work the ones you don't get off on Tuesdays, since you already have the childminder then. But without a contract with your childminder, I would not be paying her for all five of those days. Unless you want some child-free days off work?

Original poster
MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 21:48

@BritInUS1 Bank holidays aren't necessarily taken out of annual leave -- I've never had to do this before, for instance.

OP posts:
bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 21:50

There isn't a normal. Some will expect you to pay whether you need the days or not. Some will not work bank holidays and therefore not expect you to pay. The childminder is self-employed and it's on her to have established the terms and conditions in advance. You do not have to pay her for days she is not working. On the other hand, she does not have to keep taking your child at all. So you need to come to an agreement that is a compromise for both of you.

SandyY2K · 15/04/2019 21:50

OP, you are legally entitled to holiday pay of 28 days per year (pro rata), which normally includes bank holidays.

Are you getting this entitlement?

Make sure your employer is not doing up out of your statutory right here.

If your childminder doesn't have a contract, then I doubt she's paying tax...otherwise this is something she would have covered. Unless she is really new to this.

My childminder wasn't paying any tax. All cash in hand, so no chance would I have paid her when she wasn't working.

Original poster
MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 21:51

Unfortunately I do also do paid freelance work on the Tuesday. As half of the day is my study time it would be slightly less of a hit financially but I can't afford to lose the study time as I will fail my course otherwise. Plus I have freelance work already booked in for some of the Tuesdays so I can't really just do my job then instead.

Basically I think I have to either just not get paid for some of the bank holidays, or pay for another day of childcare to make it up.

OP posts:
bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 21:51

Bank holidays aren't necessarily taken out of annual leave -- I've never had to do this before, for instance.

No, but what BritinUS1 says applies to bank holidays. You get 2/5 of them.

Theducksarenotmyfriends · 15/04/2019 21:52

I pay my childminder half price on bank holidays (she doesn't look after dc on those days) but we have a contract so was all agreed at the beginning. Why haven't you got a contract?

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2019 21:53

Well, in that case it's easy. You need to work some of those bank holidays. Your childminder expects to be paid for some of those bank holidays. Send your child to the childminder and go into work/work from home/whatever. Ta dah!

dementedpixie · 15/04/2019 21:53

It depends whether bank holidays are included in your minimum entitlement or whether they are included on top. What is the full time holiday entitlement and are bank holidays included?

SandyY2K · 15/04/2019 21:53

All bank holidays are Mondays, so isn't this something you should have discussed earlier?

Incorrect.
Most, but not all.

Good Friday is not a Monday and Christmas day, boxing day and New years day change every year.

AlunWynsKnee · 15/04/2019 21:54

Our CM had a simple rule that if she was available on a regular day and we didn't use her, we had to pay. If she was unavailable, we didn't. So if she wanted the bank holiday off we didn't pay.

For your hours you should get whatever the full time staff get, pro rata. So if they get 8 bank Holidays and you do 2 days a week you get 3.2 days of paid bank holidays. In practice my work rolls all my bank Holidays and annual leave into one amount pro rata and I use that to cover bank Holidays and annual leave. Works best if you don't work Mondays though.

RandomMess · 15/04/2019 21:55

If you don't have a CM contract I would just state that you only pay her for the days she works... you can ask if she can swap to mutually agreeable days?

CM contracts really vary I preferred the ones where it was a slightly higher daily rate but I only paid for the days the CM worked.

LL83 · 15/04/2019 21:57

You like the childminder and child is happy. Its finishing in September, realistically I wouldn't challenge it as you have more to loose. Lesson if looking for childcare again in future.

dementedpixie · 15/04/2019 21:58

Your minimum entitlement is 11.2 days. Bank holidays can be included as part of that or on top of it depending on the employer. If bank holidays are included then you would deduct any that you were due to work from the above figure which then leaves you to choose the rest of the days.

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