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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be puzzled about what is fair when it comes to bank holidays and childminder

112 replies

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 20:52

I am really confused about bank holidays, and don't know what is fair in this situation. Essentially, the childminder wants to be paid for bank holidays when she is off. But my own employer won't be paying ME for bank holidays, so I would end up very out of pocket.

My DD goes to a childminder on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. She's very happy and the childminder is very good. We didn't discuss things like this before we started definitely a mistake on my part and there was no contract. My DD will be leaving at the end of September to go to nursery. We have 5 bank holidays (all on MY days) between now and then. I pay roughly £55 a day.

I also didn't discuss it with my employer. I only work two days a week for them, and these days are Monday and Friday (their choice). They don't really know what to do about bank holidays and have suggested that I should get some pro rated bank holidays and then perhaps make up the others by working on a different day. On the Tuesday I study for a course I'm taking, and also do paid freelance work. So it's not really a 'spare' day that I can shift things to without losing money there too.

I'm not sure what is fair to the CM. I totally recognise that she deserves bank holidays too, but as a parent who does Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays I feel I would be bearing the brunt of the cost when other parents aren't. If I did Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays I would never have this situation at all! As it is, I will be losing £275.

What would be a fair solution here?

OP posts:

Original poster

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 22:00

It's ok, I am totally clear on my holiday entitlement, I'm getting everything that I should be, and with this particular employer it's normal for bank holidays to be paid on top of that. They've suggested that this should be prorated to 2/5 for me, which seems totally fair.

The problem is really what is a fair arrangement to come to with the childminder. I think we both know there should have been a contract, but there wasn't, so we need to come to a fair agreement now. Neither of us are assholes.

I am going to ask if I can swap DD's Monday to Wednesday. My work would be ok with that although it's slightly irritating in terms of office space. I don't think the childminder has space on Wednesdays, and I can't do Thursdays, but it's worth a try.

OP posts:

SandyY2K · 15/04/2019 22:01

What is your leave entitlement at work?

What should happen is you get two fifths of the FTSE leave entitlement and two fifths of the bank holiday entitlement.

I know that if your company doesn't operate on BHL, you either are bit paid or have to deduct it from your entitlement.

Some companies don't know how this works in practice.

I would say you have more flexibility if you don't have Monday as a working day.

Over the years working in HR I've seen ppl lose it gain from this, because they are unaware of their entitlement.

dementedpixie · 15/04/2019 22:01

Or you could tell your CM that if you are paying for those days then she can look after your child!

Taswama · 15/04/2019 22:02

If you work full time you are entitled to a minimum 20 days and the bank holidays. If you are part time it all gets thrown in the pot and you get a pro rats amount.
This is why it is best to not work on Mondays as you effectively end up with more leave. If you work eg Mon-Weds you still have to take 7 BH off but some will come out of your A/L.

2rachtint · 15/04/2019 22:07

I had a childminder 2 days a week including a Monday and had to pay bank hols (though that was clear in the contract). It did annoy me as felt I should have paid 2/5 of them as, if I'd done a wed and Thur (for example) i wouldn't have to pay for bank hols! But it is what it is and we loved her so didn't say anything. We paid her 0.5 for 4 weeks holiday a year. She was very clear on it though so no surprises.

SandyY2K · 15/04/2019 22:11

The onus was on the childminder to draw up a contract. It's not your fault she hasn't.

She's the one providing a service.

If say if she wants to be paid, then she needs to be available to work.

I'd check the situation with her 3 week holiday as well. I wouldn't expect that to be paid, when she's unavailable and you may have to pay for alternative childcare.

I think quite a few childminders get away with a lot, because you don't want to have issues with someone looking after your child, even when they're in the wrong.

I know I let a lot of things go for that reason.

glitterbiscuits · 15/04/2019 22:18

I'm exOfsted and no contract is not acceptable. I would check her last inspection report and ask to see her insurance and up to date first aid.
However she can set her own business terms as she sees fit.

Smoggle · 15/04/2019 22:21

Ofsted have nothing to do with contracts

howtotrainyourdragqueen · 15/04/2019 22:22

I find it amazing that childminders charge for bank holidays and their holidays.

They are self employed. They should build the cost of holidays into their hourly/daily rate so it's split fairly.

They should not be charging when they cannot provide a service.

QueenArseClangers · 15/04/2019 22:29

OP, you haven’t answered if the CM will actually look after your DC on a bank holiday if they’re charging you?

Tobebythesea · 15/04/2019 22:33

You say your child is starting nursery in September? Is it private or a school one? Hate to say this but you will be likely to pay for most bank holidays as well when your child isn’t there.

Original poster

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 22:40

No, she isn't going to be available to look after children on those days, she is going to have a holiday.

Yes, I know that I will be paying a set monthly rate for the nursery and that will include bank holidays and closures. It is ok though as it is full-time and I will be full-time.

It only seems to get irritating if you are part-time and on Mondays! (current situation...)

OP posts:

Boom45 · 15/04/2019 22:41

I've used a few childminders (and, funnily enough used to temp for Ofsted where I saw a few contracts). Charging for holidays is v normal. Some times it's 50% sometimes 100% or somewhere in between.
If you think about it, as a childminder that cares mainly for school age children you'd have to cover quite a lot of time unpaid when the kids aren't at school.
When i was looking for a childminder for my own kids most were full so.my choices were limited but all charged something for holidays.
You could refuse to pay, or try to find another childminder but i think it's pretty standard so you might struggle to find an alternative

Original poster

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 22:42

It is really interesting to see the split of opinions here on what is normal! To be honest, my DD is happy with her and it would be awful to leave just because of this. But I don't earn a great deal at the moment so it does have a noticeable impact on me.

OP posts:

topcat2014 · 15/04/2019 22:47

MN always struggles with people who are self employed (like CM) not also somehow being treated like employees.

If I was buying a service, and the service was not available, I would not be paying for the service. So, quite how all these CM seem to expect to be paid for bank holidays when they are not working is beyond me.

From an employment perspective, things are quite clear. You get a minimum of 28 days holiday, prorated by days worked. Your employer can specify when they are (for example closing the office) or you can choose them. That bit is not 'optional' just because you work for a charity or something.

Cornettoninja · 15/04/2019 22:50

It is ok though as it is full-time and I will be full-time

Why do you think what you earn has anything to do with what a service costs? That’s not how anything works !?!

It’s not unusual for childcare settings to change for bank holidays. My CM does but not any other holidays (obviously charges for our holidays). One if the reasons I chose a CM setting is because I couldn’t believe my friends nursery charged her for two weeks over Christmas when they were shut.

Yabbers · 15/04/2019 22:58

I think it’s common for CMs to do this. The ones who don’t usually charge more to make up for it so you pay either way.

On the Tuesday I study for a course I'm taking

Did you not go in to work tomorrow even though uni is closed? 😄

Comefromaway · 15/04/2019 22:59

I personally would not pay for a service/agree to a contract on days where that service is not available but having spent many years being self employed I’m a bit more clued up on that.

As you appear not to have a contract with the childminder I would question that with them. If you had signed a contract agreeing it you would be liable to pay.

glitterbiscuits · 15/04/2019 23:03

smoggle. Yes Ofsted can check contracts. Not in terms of business ( charges, working hours etc) but they often have the parental responsibility as part of the document and broad permissions too.

Original poster

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 23:08

"Why do you think what you earn has anything to do with what a service costs? That’s not how anything works !?! "

I'm not saying that it's because of how much I earn, I'm making the point that bank holidays are much less of issue when you are working full-time and a child is going to a childcare setting full-time -- they are 8 days out of 260 working days in the year. But if my employment is on Mondays and Fridays only, then this year bank holidays are 8 days out of 104 working days.

Also, I would be being paid for bank holidays when I am full-time, so I wouldn't be losing money by paying a nursery for those days too. But I am not going to be paid for some of the bank holidays now, yet will be expected to pay for childcare that I am not getting on those days.

I am not even saying it is unfair for a childminder to get paid for bank holidays, but it doesn't seem fair that this should all fall to a parent just using the childminder's services on Mondays and Fridays.

OP posts:

Original poster

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 23:14

@Yabbers I would feel it was fairer if they just charged everyone more and put it aside for their bank holidays. As it is, it isn't split evenly between parents and is basically all going to fall on me because I do Mondays and Fridays.

And yes, I still study in holidays, I have coursework and assignments due including over the summer holidays! :-/

OP posts:

RandomMess · 15/04/2019 23:19

Even if you can't swap days to a Wed as CM is full you could ask her to make up the days when other DC are on holiday or off sick?

It would be interesting to know if the other parents do have contracts and not giving you one was an oversight.

Original poster

MotherOfDragonite · 15/04/2019 23:24

I guess it does not seem fair. I am not being paid for all the bank holidays, I am being paid for a prorated amount. Yet I am being expected to pay for all of the childminder's bank holidays, not just a prorated amount.

I will probably just do it as she is a nice person and my daughter is happy, but it doesn't seem quite fair. Although to be honest even if it had been in a contract from the start, I would still have gone for it because there is so little choice and she seemed great (which she is).

OP posts:

CallMeRachel · 15/04/2019 23:47

She's not being fair.

She's self employed yet expecting to be paid for a service which she won't be providing. That's totally wrong and immoral.

I'm afraid to say, if she hasn't done a written contract with you her insurance is invalid.

She may seem like a good childminder but she is unprofessional by not having a contract.

Tell her as there was no prior discussion, no contract and the fact she's unavailable to have your child you won't be paying her for the bank holidays. No court in the land would find in her favour, no way.

Timewarpdancer · 16/04/2019 07:27

Why doesn’t you just say to her that as you won’t be providing the service on those days then I’m not paying for it. See what she says.

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