AIBU to ask why my mother's venom still slips through the cracks?

[tympanic]

My mother just popped in to visit, and as usual it wasn't long before she started making PA comments about my parenting choices, work progression, cleanliness of my house, my appearance, imaginary issues with my son... whatever tickled her fancy.

She has form for being like this, and my siblings and I try to joke about it but her endlessly cold, critical negativity is so damaging. I'm the only daughter and we all agree I cop the brunt of it.

I really only started to realise how damaging it is when I celebrated my first Mother's Day and considered what it all meant. I imagined what sort of mother I wanted to be for my son to make sure he lives as happy a life as I am capable of providing. To help him through the low points and the pride I feel with he achieves his highs. And then I thought about my own mother who I have to avoid when bad or good things happen to me and got deeply, deeply sad.

I'm pretty good at letting it roll off in general, but every so often she finds a wee crack to pour the venom in. She did this today with a targeted comment about how some women find juggling high-profile work, multiple kids, maintaining a house so easily, whereas others (ie me) clearly don't, even when they have "only one child".

She hit a nerve, as she knew she would. I don't understand why after knowing this woman for as long as I have she can still get to me. I understand she's a miserable old boot and will die a miserable old boot, but I wish I could get to a point where it didn't affect me anymore.

Thoughts? Stories? Witty retorts to shut her down with?

My mother hated me. She openly told me I'd ruined her life and that she wished I'd died instead of a sibling. I was nine. My other sister was as manipulative and grasping as my mum, and they were best friends. When my mum was widowed and fell on harder times and couldn't lavish gifts on my sister like she used to, my sister distanced herself and my mother died having not seen her for three years, although she only lived an hour away.

I coped by trying to understand that her behaviour towards me wasn't anything to do with me: it was all her, about her, and her problem. I can only advise anyone with a toxic parent to keep their distance, if not go completely NC. I didn't go NC with my mother but only saw her once or twice a year until she went into full-time care and at that point I visited her weekly. Her dementia meant she thought I was her other daughter mostly, or she would ask me to bring her, and mostly told me she didn't love me or ever want me. But still I'd show up and bring chocolate because the alternative was to let her die alone, unloved by her kids and by her life, surrounded by people she didn't know. I'm not recommending that for everyone but I know myself and that I would feel guilty if I hadn't. I wish that wasn't the case.

Anyway, she took a turn while I was out of the country working and I rushed back so she wouldn't die alone in hospital, and lo and behold the vultures were out.

My advice is do whatever you can cope with, if it's going NC, then do that. If it's keeping minimal contact, do that. Anything you do for her, it's for your own sake as she will not thank you or credit you. It's a tough situation, good luck with it.

that I am terrified I will end up like her and do this to my son.

You won’t be, precisely because you’re worried about it. That means you have both self awareness and emotional intelligence, plus you have empathy for your child.

Right away, that makes you completely different to your Mother.

By the way: I don't think her venom is "slipping through" the cracks at all! I think that she may be feeding it through in a controlled dose. Just enough to hurt, but indirect enough to be plausibly deniable, so it fucks with your head.

My mum's a specialist in this. I grew up being told that I was "… striking" or "[deadly little pause] different". Probably the biggest compliment she gave me in the last while was that I was looking "much less bloated". Meanwhile, like a poster upthread describes, she had sky-high ambitions for my intellectual development but got nasty when I showed a bit of independent thought. A life-long string of "little comments" (albeit with some epically horrible moments) that could all individually have been explained away, but which added up to a horrible, poisonous dynamic. Venom is right!

My DM was twenty and a virgin when she married, worked for a solicitors, got pregnant was sacked because it was not seemly to see a bump, had three children in 8 years before she discovered birth control. Had the odd job which worked around us. Had a few affairs we surmised when we put things together as adults. She has only admitted to one because she was caught out and subsequently divorced. Pushed my DF to do better, get a raise, get a better job, ended up in a posh house but was still not happy. I was not allowed to stay at school, what a waste for a girl.

I married had a house, DCs followed four years later, went back to college got a degree, bought a business did well. When we had little ones and were poor she was happier, as our finances improved she became very critical and controlling. Even dripping into DCs ears. her venom.

I do feel sorry for her, a highly intelligent woman who should have gone to university and married better than she did in her opinion. She felt she deserved to be rich and feted by all, she was beautiful that much is true.

My MIL another highly intelligent woman married later 3 children had PND went into a mental hospital luckily my FIL baulked at ECT when it was recommended, she was never the same though they had to hire someone to look after her children including my OH, she became an alcoholic for many years until her 60`s when she stopped drinking.

Women of that era were pretty stuffed if they had a good brain which was not appreciated.

@SonEtLumiere Excellent responses. I will give some a go, but I also feel any retort will just show her she's upsetting me and she'll continue along the same vein, unfortunately.

For those who gave me the pig quote... noted. And how.

It's great some of you have supportive husbands. Mine doesn't get it and he's got his own family issues. I've let him get away with a fair whack of shite in our relationship too. Like I have others. I'm starting to wonder if the lack of self-worth I must have for tolerating shitty behaviour in others traces back to my mother. That's a lot of power she has there if so...

I've found my relationship increasingly difficult since becoming a mum myself. It varies from comments to undermining me and although she really is never there for me when it actually matters, tells me constantly how she does so much for me.

My childhood was basically a war zone between her and my dad and there was little in the way of support, love or attention. I find it hard to imagine it with my own kids and hard to forgive if I'm honest.

I went NC years ago to protect my youngest DC. When she started phoning up to a dozen times a day I unplugged the phone. I now have caller screening her number is banned. We moved house went ex. directory still she found us. My siblings went NC years ago I tried for a lot longer. They are very unhappy women.

@IHateUncleJamie Thanks. I really hope you're right.

I think I will read that book IHateUncleJamie It looks good and I still have things to think of.

I got depressed in my late 30s when everything was going wrong. So I asked my mother if I could ring her up in the mornings (she used to work with other people with problems and had done counselling). I did it for a month. I couldn't get a word in edgeways as she only talked about her problems. It was then that I realised that it was not me. I would never have put her down as a narcissist until then. I also read 'Dance of Anger' recommended by my counsellor who said I wasn't depressed, and what did my father do when all this was going on?...……….. I have learned a lot from Mumsnet. Just wish I had understood sooner.

Out of interest to those of you that have gone nc what do you tell you young dc about them?

Mine are 2 and 6 months right now but when they are older they will inevitably ask where my parents are as my in laws are very involved. I don't know what to say! I've only recently gone nc with them and this is the one thing that's bothering me, worried it'll have a negative affect on my dcs lives because I love my grandma so much.

My eldest DCs worked it out and used to occasionally talk about nutty nanna, they knew things were not normal. My youngest just forgot about her. It is sad because my granny was lovely and I adored her.

My mum can be like this too. She's so negative and critical that me and my brother have made a bingo card up for when we see her.

I also got the 'your house is digusting' (As in dirty... but Iit's not!) line from her when I had 2 under 2, an elderly dog, was the main wage earner and I was suffering from migraines brought on from tiredness and stress. I'll never forgive her for that.

@Strugglingtodomybest Horrible when they layer more crap on you when you're already struggling.

A few comments my mother has said when I was at my absolute lowest points in life have really stuck with me. Along the lines of "You're really incapable of coping, aren't you," or "You're all over the place." It's the way she says it. No concern or compassion, always unable to disguise a smirk of glee at my misfortune.

I like your game though. I have similar ways of lightening things up for myself in certain situations.

It is horrible, when you know that other people would be getting loads of support while they're going through a rough patch, and all you get is it pointed out how shit you are.

Melroses

An elderly friend of mine once said it was about lack of personal fulfilment.

I think it comes from a place of wanting your child to do better, but not letting go of the values that have held you back.

This is the conclusion I've gradually come to. I've had counselling and that really helped me to realise that it was her with the problem, not me, and now I'm on a mission to find out as much as possible about her childhood (she's never told us much about it) in order to understand why she's like she is.

Also, to everyone worried about turning out like their mothers, like the pp said, you won't, because you're worried about it.
Think about it, if your child said to you, mum, I really don't like it when you x. Would you say, really? Ok I won't say/Do x again, sorry for inadvertently upsetting you or would you say, wah wah wah, I haven't done anything wrong?!

No mother gets it perfectly right, it's how you react when you get it wrong that counts, imo.

My mother was weirdly jealous when I was little.

I used to go to someone's house for tea after school and would come back and say that the person's mother was nice and we had fish fingers, or that they had a really nice mother who had bright pink fingernails or some other meaningless drivel that children come out with when they have been somewhere and found it different from their own small world. She used to come down on me like a ton of bricks with 'don't you have nice at home' ' well she has got time for that hasn't she' sort of statements.

I was totally . You come home from something nice and get the rug pulled out from under you.

I'm on a mission to find out as much as possible about her childhood (she's never told us much about it) in order to understand why she's like she is.

Yes this is worth looking at - especially since she has not told you. Funnily enough it is the sort of thing you find out later on. Looking further back at family trees, and finding out about the context in which they lived gives great insight into the bizarre things my relatives have done

I did find out about my mothers childhood which according to her was harsh, terrible. I spoke to her siblings they were baffled, said her stories were in her own head. I did wonder my granny was always so lovely when we did see her ditto my grandad. They did say they she was a fantasist who used to tell them when she grew up she was going to be rich live in the best house in the area and meet the queen. Her family were poor but loving was my conclusion.

It was my DH who noticed that in pics of my Mum from the past, she was never really smiling. Not one of those big grins everyone always does for the camera, she just looked detached. Prior to having kids, there are loads of smiley pics of her with my Dad. This is what leads me to believe she had PND but in her day you just got on with it and never complained.
And the comment someone made upthread about their lack of fulfilment, yes, absolutely. She's always going on about her achievements from long ago like she has a yearning. However when she hears about mine or the grandkids' achievements it always feels like she's squirrelling the info away so she can boast elsewhere rather than feeling genuinely happy for anyone else.

She has to pigeonhole me. When I divorced my ex she labelled me as a career girl (erm, no but I need to work to pay my bills), because that's what she'd be telling others rather than bear the 'shame' that her daughter had gotten divorced failed at her marriage
She never actually tried to figure out (or just listen to me) to understand what made me tick, she just wanted me to live the same sort of life as herself.

However when she hears about mine or the grandkids' achievements it always feels like she's squirrelling the info away so she can boast elsewhere rather than feeling genuinely happy for anyone else.

I recognise this very much. I feel very sad that my children had grandparents that just did not interact with them as people. They did/do love them but have an odd way of showing it and it doesn't really help anyone else.

@Moralitym1n1 I don't want to bite back because: a) It will just egg her on because she will know she hit a nerve. Her behaviour is designed to maim. It's not accidental. and b) One of the biggest things that upset me is the fact that I am terrified I will end up like her and do this to my son. I could not conceive of me being the reason he ever feels like this. So I don't want to be vengeful or nasty in return.

Nothing you have written itt suggests you are like her or could be like her. I was suggesting you don't only to her (or anyone else bullying you I suppose), you can be yourself with everyone else. Just keep in mind every time you deal with her that she's different, it sounds like you already feel that way.

Other than challenging her and making it so unpleasant for her to continue to act that way, that she (maybe) stops, what else can you do but minimise or go no.contact
You said challenging her was incredibly difficult, blood out if a stone and she condeded eventually but had returned to the same behaviour unchanged, so that doesn't seem to work (and is very stressful for you).

*you do it only to her

*has

I wouldn't worry about egging her on, does she really need egged on, it doesn't sound like it.

If it were me I would mirror her behaviour right back at her and if she escalated or threatens to leave or not have contact, let her go. It sounds like a blessing. It sounds like she has you still trained for compliance and submission.

I have a situation which is similar but different.

My mum is very critical, undermining and pessimistic about every aspect of my life and choices. So I know what you mean about having to avoid good or bad news, as mine always finds a way to undermine anything I feel positive about.

However my mother has a long term illness and lives alone, so I frequently take caring responsibility for her and keep in regular contact with her to keep an eye on her health.

It is difficult to know how this situation will ever change, I've never figured out how to stop it being hurtful, my only advice is to maximise time with people who are supportive/encouraging/positive about your life

@justasking111 if you asked one of my brothers, he'll say that our mother was lovely and wonderful, our GM was horrible and she'd had a terrible time with domestic violence.

If you asked any of the other four, though, you'll hear an entirely different tale - and, for three of us, that tale included regular beatings, an autistic sibling being regularly locked in a cupboard from the age of two whilst she went out, one being on the At Risk Register for non accidental injuries including being hit with a carving knife and needing stitches, one being trained to make excuses for what happened to two of the younger ones and one being threatened with having her face burned off with a hot iron.

The 'domestic violence' was her husband coming home and catching her in the act and making it very clear that one more scratch or hint that she'd done anything to the three would result in her getting exactly the same treatment before being kicked out on the street in front of the neighbours.

The last child, as soon as the husband died (conveniently, she was able to decide as next of kin that he 'wouldn't want to be like this', refuse surgery consent and push for life support to be switched off), was disbelieved because she'd then had the experience of earlier years to be better at isolating the child/keeping them completely off the radar by not going to nursery or school until it was compulsory, coming up with excuses and, of course 'I'm a poor little widow with a wicked child'.

Of course, she was 'a natural mother and you're just not and should have had abortions' in conversations.

Meh. I was shit at the job, but I never fucking hit them or told them they were stupid/ugly/useless - I just had no idea how to make them feel happy or how to deal with the inevitable abusive partner's control and manipulation, as he never seemed quite as bad as she was. The DC are happier not being in contact in case I turn into her (as the ex has told them repeatedly I would whilst showering them with expensive gifts and activities), so I'm sure if they have children they'll do fine without me - as you will do fine without her.