AIBU to ask why my mother's venom still slips through the cracks?

[tympanic]

My mother just popped in to visit, and as usual it wasn't long before she started making PA comments about my parenting choices, work progression, cleanliness of my house, my appearance, imaginary issues with my son... whatever tickled her fancy.

She has form for being like this, and my siblings and I try to joke about it but her endlessly cold, critical negativity is so damaging. I'm the only daughter and we all agree I cop the brunt of it.

I really only started to realise how damaging it is when I celebrated my first Mother's Day and considered what it all meant. I imagined what sort of mother I wanted to be for my son to make sure he lives as happy a life as I am capable of providing. To help him through the low points and the pride I feel with he achieves his highs. And then I thought about my own mother who I have to avoid when bad or good things happen to me and got deeply, deeply sad.

I'm pretty good at letting it roll off in general, but every so often she finds a wee crack to pour the venom in. She did this today with a targeted comment about how some women find juggling high-profile work, multiple kids, maintaining a house so easily, whereas others (ie me) clearly don't, even when they have "only one child".

She hit a nerve, as she knew she would. I don't understand why after knowing this woman for as long as I have she can still get to me. I understand she's a miserable old boot and will die a miserable old boot, but I wish I could get to a point where it didn't affect me anymore.

Thoughts? Stories? Witty retorts to shut her down with?

What would happen if you went no contact?

Sometimes letting people feel that you are prepared to abandon the relationship if they don't behave better can help tremendously.

@SpamChaudFroid. That is awful

OP

Your Mum's words are the sad, outdated vanity of a woman struggling to cope with the cage she imprisoned herself in long ago.

My DM can press all my buttons too and if I snap back at her she can sometimes play the guilt card. I read the above line somewhere once and it stuck with me ever since as it describes my Mum perfectly. She is from another time. If I were medical I'd probably diagnose my Mum with post natal depression and OCD which, now that my Dad has passed away, can run unchecked. Like you I'm the only daughter so get more of 'the comments' than my brothers.

@downcasteyes do you or your DH not shut her up?

I think @SonEtLumiere has some cracking retorts. I wouldn't let her away with even a single comment. Pick her up on every single one with one of those. She needs training and to understand that you won't tolerate any venomous comments, ever. She won't stop otherwise.

This is going to get worse. As your child goes through each stage of their life, you will remember her treatment of you at that stage and be once again shocked by it. So you are wise to think about this now and try to work out a way to deal with it.

I'm not sure that I have the answer but I've found that both distance and talking about it to my husband (who had normal, loving parents) have helped me. My parents recently moved a long way from where I live (previously they were very close but never visited) and I'm hoping that this will help too.

The exact same happened to me when I had my dc. All of these awful memories came flooding back. I really started to see them in a different light and resent the way they treated me.

Always the one getting smacked and screamed at, threatened as a teen, car keys (that I paid for entirely, including my license) confiscated off me for not obeying. My Dad would fake chest pains because he knew how upset I was after my grandad died of a heart attack and I became really anxious about relatives dying.

The difference is I'm the only one that gets all the shit. My sister (eldest) is the golden child and my brother (youngest) is the baby...still even in his early twenties. I don't speak to my sister as she's just a vile person but this has made things ten times worse with my parents. My brother is lovely but can't see how much they are suffocating and ruining his life, I feel so sad for him.

Example he recently went on a date with someone, decided to meet at home before they went and my mum persuaded to join them for dinner as it's just easier and cheaper that way he didn't hear from the young woman again!

You're not alone op, it is upsetting.

Pull her up on it. Every. Single. Time.

@SonEtLumiere’s replies are perfect. Don’t do it nastily, just calmly and sort of incredulously - like you can’t believe how pathetic she is.

She will continue to do it as long as she can get away with it. So don’t let her.

If your mother is like mine there is little point in trying to get any acknowledgement or apology. Its exhausting and unproductive.

Stop letting her 'pop in', don't reply to messages, don't answer the phone etc. until you want to. Be super busy if you don't want to make a point of it. 'Oh sorry, didn't see your message' 'didn't hear the phone', sorry, just about to pop out, can't visit today. Your mum isn't stupid and will get the message soon enough, and if you get complaints from relatives, you can follow the party line, 'I've just been so busy, you know how it is...'

Cherry - It's a long story, but the bones of it are these: my mother was extremely emotionally abusive, very violence and on one occasion sexually abusive when I was growing up. My experience at her hands has been minimised and I have been gaslighted about this my whole life: the problems of her beating me as a teenager were those associated with the necessary discipline of a wicked child, the problems of control and bullying were me being recalcitrant. It is victim-blaming of the worst kind, but it will never change. I went through a long time where it made me very miserable and affected my sense of self-worth terribly, but if I ever questioned the behaviour it would just be more evidence of my being 'difficult'.

I have come to accept I will never have a loving family, and to focus instead on building my own life at several hundred miles remove. I don't engage with the behaviour because it's actually easier for me that way. DH is amazing because they rein it in considerably when he is around, just by virtue of the fact that he's outside the situation. It shows that they know full well that no-one outside of the situation looking in would credit their viewpoint. I still get residual complaints about how difficult I was - but a raised eyebrow from DH tends to make these trail off.

She did this today with a targeted comment about how some women find juggling high-profile work, multiple kids, maintaining a house so easily

I assume you're aware this was total rubbish. No-one in that position manages all that easily: or if they do, it's because they have a PA and other staff at their high profile work, and have nannies, cleaners and gardeners.

My mother (no contact now, my decision 9 years ago) would on answering the phone ask "how's your diet going?" Especially when I wasn't dieting. Result was it threw me and I became the meek daughter she could pick on and berate easily. I would get off the phone swearing and wishing that I had said x,y,z and feeling just like I was a naughty child. It took me years to realise that she was the cause of my depression and self doubt.

One of the biggest things that upset me is the fact that I am terrified I will end up like her and do this to my son.

I am unkind to my son sometimes, because frankly he is hard work and I lose my temper. Then I see his little face and remember how it felt to be that person. I then make an effort to hug him, tell him I love him and tell him that I was unkind and I shouldn't have been, and that I'm sorry. I try to be the grown-up in the way my mum wasn't. I think that if you try to do that and above all be fair, then you'll be ok.

Downcasteyes, why do you still see her? Are you hoping she will eventually see the light?

I found that 5 years of weekly therapy helped! I still see my mum but I have cut off emotionally now. I do what I can to help her out but it is totally out of obligation and guilt not out of love. I get my support from my DH, adult DC and some great friends, not from her. She doesn’t have it in her to give.

Like your mum OP I know a lot of my mums unpleasantness comes from her own unhappiness but I no longer let her make me unhappy.

I just imagine that a lot of these mums also were the bullies in their schools.

I have taken on my niece's approach when my mother or any similar person is mean like that. Smile and say "Oh well". It shuts the conversation down and you don't have to own any of the poison. If you can't smile, a hard stare is good. My Niece was about 4 when I heard her do it to my mother for the first time. It was amazing!

Also, I was a nanny for over 20 years and I can tell you, that no women, not one single one, does all that easily. They work and sacrifice and have tons of help - cleaners, nannies, cooks, boarding schools, PAs, or at the very least their own parents doing lots of childcare.

Also, I have one child. He is considerably harder work than the 4 I looked after for 10 years. Everyone's situation is unique.

You can choose to take it, challenge it or go low or no contact.

An elderly friend of mine once said it was about lack of personal fulfilment.

I think it comes from a place of wanting your child to do better, but not letting go of the values that have held you back. For example, my mother wanted me to get brilliant exam results etc, but also seemed to want to turn out the perfect housewife. Ultimately, I have failed on both

For yourself, you need to manage expectations of your DS and yourself and learn to enjoy and make the most of what you have. You can't do much about what your mother thinks and says because you have no control over her, but you can become more secure in yourself and learn to bat it off.

@IlluminatiParty I missed your comment about compliments. Sounds very familiar. Sometimes (though rarely) she will compliment me, but it almost makes me feel physically ill to hear it. I shake it off like it's a spider on my neck because it's so out of place and forced. Totally incongruous to her behaviour 99% of the time. Actually gives me the willies just thinking about it.

All my solidarity, OP. I went NC with my mother a while ago after years of contorting myself in every possible way to avoid her disappointment, anger, disapproval or upset. I am so much happier day-to-day, but I get ambushed by the memories of cruel things she said years ago (often in a sickly sweet, caring way) and it hurts all over again.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a way you can win except not to play. This might mean NC or it might mean playing the comments with a straight bat, saying something dismissive (I love @cyclecamper's niece's approach), telling her nothing that matters, or shutting her down consistently. It will be down to how much energy it takes, and how much you have. I hope you find a solution that works for you.

I mean I had only just come back to this thread not threat. Freudian slip perhaps...

Just saw another "threat" when I meant thread!

This is not okay.
No one has a right to speak to you that way.
Loved ones should treat you with at least the same courtesy that a stranger does.

@tympanic Hugs of empathy from a fellow scapegoated daughter.

The first helpful book I read on the subject of abusive mothers was “Will I ever be good enough” by Karyl Mcbride. Toxic Parents, recommended by pps, is also good.

The thing about PA mothers is that they almost always make their nasty remarks deniable; either by waiting until your DH isn’t there or when you’re alone with her. Then you’ll either get “But I didn’t mean it like that (tinkly laugh), you’re overreacting” OR flatout lies saying you must have misheard. As she gets older you might see flashes or pure rage if you dare to challenge her, or she might start playing the victim (watch out for crocodile tears).

I’ve come to the conclusion that my mother was outraged when after 30 years of being her emotional punchbag and a repository for all her hate, bile and insecurities, I finally said NO MORE. Since then she’s tried every tactic possible to get at me to the extent that I had to block all means of communication. No Contact was my only option.

You’re right; calling your Mother out or challenging her is incredibly frustrating as that is what she wants. The only option is to set boundaries of what you will or won’t tolerate, tell her perfectly calmly that you do not wish to be spoken to so disrespectfully and can she please remember that you are an adult now. Then every time she oversteps the mark you can calmly remind her.

If that doesn’t work and you get tantrums or rages then SHE is choosing to behave badly and the consequence is that you are then unavailable for a week or two.

I would lessen contact too if you can and try to avoid being alone with her which is when she probably gets her worst digs in.

Once you’ve done some research on her behaviour then counselling might well be very beneficial.

One thing to remember though - it’s NOT you. It’s her.

Why are you still seeing her op?

Why not go very low contact, and cut this horrid dimension out of your life. Spend much less time with her, and be happy with your life.