To be amazed by the amount of people who think the state shouldnt help people?

[malificent7]

I mean with job creation, welfare, regulation of private employers etc.
I hear so many times...its not the state's job to do x, y and z.

So what is the point of gaving a state if it cannot produce conditions for people to thrive?

Of course some take the piss but the state shouldctry to peovide more jobs and less zero hour contracts, they should regulate how the private sector treats employees, they should moderate wages anf provide housing.

Of course, some take the piss but most have a genuine need and the state dosnt want to know.

InspectorCloseau-

They can and do! Most immigrants I know at work are just here to save up as much as they can and are then going to buy houses etc in their home country

I'm not sure I agree. Or I do, but where do you draw the line.
If you have a born sick child, who needs help and support, especially financially, that's not the same as creating jobs. And that's not the same as creating laws and policies on .... say zero hours contracts.

All the things listed are very different issues.

@WitchesGlove and how long are they here for? A decade is just too much. All people who I know who came here and planned on going back were here max 5 years.

My DH has his own small company (quite niche ) and no one including him has had a payrise for at least 9 years. Rents have doubled , bills have massively increased, workplace pensions have come in to effect but any small price increases passed onto clients has led to a drop in business.

So much outdated nonsense on this thread - all you have to do to get benefits is rock up to the DWP every five weeks, tax credits for people on £58,000/year, Life of Reily.

NONE of this has been true for years and years.

It's all UC now. Even Child Benefit will soon be UC. Pension Tax Credit will be UC for people who have a partner under pensionable age as of next month.

Hats off to the Tory propaganda machine, they've done a sterling job.

Inliverpool1- why did they bring in the minimum wage if wages for such crappy jobs were brilliant anyway?

I was 16 in 2004, and my first job only paid £4.80 per hour. McDonalds and places paid £4.50. A few of my friends only got £4 an hour for office jobs. This was London as well! I find it hard to believe people got £7+ for working in a bar- do you mean including tips?

I thought over population was due to people living longer not rising birth rates?

Kazzyhoward-

Accountants must have been massively overpaid in the past then!

£45K is more than enough to live on in most parts of the UK!

Witches that's anecdotal evidence. Most immigrants I know have 2 or less children, pay tax and have been employed, law abiding citizens the entire time they have been settled here.

That's in contrast to the widespread culture of entitlement in a distinct section of society. The attitude being "I have 10 kids with 3 - 4 different mothers/fathers, so give me a 7 bed council house and full state benefits"...

It's very dysfunctional and ought to be addressed. Not to mention all the social problems that come with it.

Over population is because people are living longer. The birth rate is 1.88%. That’s not even replacement rate.

We've all seen the statistics, X amount of children in the U.K. living on poverty. That makes me angry to be honest

Not the governments fault though. They don't make people have children they can't aflord to support. There's free contraception etc available.

Sorry I don’t buy sob stories, can’t afford children don’t have them. I’m not paying for other people to breed like rabbits. And it’s a cycle born in poverty live of the state, have more kids they live off the state and we can’t keep doing it.

IceCream and ChocChoc-

I completely agree.

But everyone on this thread will tell you it’s because all benefit claimants are widows or highly disabled!

Well, what can you really do about people having children they can’t afford the basics for? Let the children starve/live on the streets because of the parents they havel been born to?

The States helps us all public infrastructure is maintained by the state we get free education a police force emergency services etc, and please stop with the ridiculous false dichotomy 'if you don't like it go and live in North Korea'🙄

The state is a mechanism by which we pool resources in order to improve everyone's life

Falling birth rates and falling death rates
too many old people not enough young productive people

Such is the view of Tory voters. They are alright Jack and sod the rest of us.

The myth of multiple generations of families not working and relying on benefits was found to be just that when the Rowntree Foundation looked into it.

The idea of 'three generations of the same family who have never worked' appeals to many, including politicians and policy-makers, as an explanation of entrenched worklessness in the UK.

Sums it up completely. Same with the idea that there are thousands of couples with huge amounts of children claiming benefits - there just isn't.

It's the kind of hysteria that allows the draconian benefit cuts like we've seen in recent times to be brought in and people only realise that it impacts them when their circumstances change.

The Rowntree foundation is hardly likely to be unbiased

But the government are?

Even the governments own statitics are at odds with the hysteria they have created over benefit frauds.

People see what they want to see and generally don't give a shit until they realise that all the cuts affect someone that they'd put in the "oh, bt I don't mean you" category.

Well, what can you really do about people having children they can’t afford the basics for? Let the children starve/live on the streets because of the parents they havel been born to? confused

Being made to pay for maternity care, education and health care after child 2/3 would put a stop to it.

Sums it up completely. Same with the idea that there are thousands of couples with huge amounts of children claiming benefits - there just isn't.

Denying that there is distinct section of society who are feckless wrt reproduction is like denying that the Pope is Catholic.

My nephew's wife is Ukrainian. She is horrified at how many people in Britain live on benefits because in Ukraine you have to work.
With no offence intended, Ukraine hardly can boast a society model worth emulating. But yes, the welfare culture in the UK is a very common shock for Eastern Europeans on arrival, which often evolves into unpleasant stereotyping of British people as exceptionally lazy.

People see what they want to see and generally don't give a shit until they realise that all the cuts affect someone that they'd put in the "oh, bt I don't mean you" category.

Maybe if some people tied a knot in it, those in true need of benefits would get better state support.

what can you really do about people having children they can’t afford the basics for

Make it punishable by law for failure to financially provide. Harsh penalties would soon correct the situation.

I am pretty sure she wasn't holding Ukraine up as a model society. She is married to an Englishman and has taken UK citizenship. It was just a conversation based on her experience and her own work ethic.