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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be amazed by the amount of people who think the state shouldnt help people?

333 replies

malificent7 · 14/04/2019 08:08

I mean with job creation, welfare, regulation of private employers etc.
I hear so many times...its not the state's job to do x, y and z.

So what is the point of gaving a state if it cannot produce conditions for people to thrive?

Of course some take the piss but the state shouldctry to peovide more jobs and less zero hour contracts, they should regulate how the private sector treats employees, they should moderate wages anf provide housing.

Of course, some take the piss but most have a genuine need and the state dosnt want to know.

OP posts:
FissionChips · 14/04/2019 13:30

Being made to pay for maternity care, education and health care after child 2/3 would put a stop to it

But that doesn’t work in countries that already have that approach, why would it work here? All that happens is the children would suffer.

So, what would you do with the children who are born to parents who can’t afford them?

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:30

Make it punishable by law for failure to financially provide. Harsh penalties would soon correct the situation.

This

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:31

But that doesn’t work in countries that already have that approach, why would it work here? All that happens is the children would suffer.

Which countries have that approach?

RosaWaiting · 14/04/2019 13:31

Witches

my parents were immigrants and I heard a lot of chat about this over my lifetime.

if we are talking about getting people in to do jobs like caring, why on earth would they bother with a 10 year visa? And if they did, how are you going to stop them having children and using housing and health?

I can see a 10 year visa would work for a single, childfree forever woman working in Artificial Intelligence and being offered a spectacular position here that she couldn't get in her home country.

but how on earth would we recruit people for caring jobs on that basis? Are you just thinking of the value of the pound when they go home? They will still have to pay UK accommodation prices while they are here, so how much, if any, can they save to take home at the end of the visa?

2 year visa might generate some interest for that, I guess.

SinkGirl · 14/04/2019 13:32

Benefit related fraud is a lot bigger than people want to believe and needs to be acted upon.

Nope. Years ago the BBC did a documentary about disability benefits where they asked the public what percentage of disability benefit claims they believed to be fraudulent. Average answer was over 40%, whereas the government’s own figures put it at 0.5%

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 14/04/2019 13:33

Being made to pay for maternity care, education and health care after child 2/3 would put a stop to it

It would have to be before 2/3 as three already makes for a large family.

Interesting idea though, it could be linked to tax/ni contributions. You have to have x years to cover Heath/education for one child, double for two etc. No child related benefits either, just job seekers in the event of job loss to tide people over short term.

lyralalala · 14/04/2019 13:33

If people got as het up about CMS failing to use the harsh powers they have to collect maintenance from NRP’s as they do about benefit claiming RP’s then quite a few more kids would live in less poverty.

InspectorClouseauMNdivision · 14/04/2019 13:33

But yes, the welfare culture in the UK is a very common shock for Eastern Europeans on arrival, which often evolves into unpleasant stereotyping of British people as exceptionally lazy.

Sadly, I have to agree with that. In our countries benefits are really just the absolute safety net. That's it. If you have 3 kids and can't afford 3 bed property, that's your problem. Kids will have to share room, or parents sleep in living room, like mine did. It was 4 of us in 1 bed flat. And it wasn't horrible. We weren't even "that poor". It was quite common, most of my friends grew up sharing bedrooms. And no one ever went around expecting to be put up into social housing because there is only tiny bit and that's agian the absolute safety net. And horrible. 6 ppl in 1 bed flat is not uncommon.

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:34

10 years visas. Maybe we should give pass books to feckless, lazy Brits? Ship them to the Scottish Islands?

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:38

Average answer was over 40%, whereas the government’s own figures put it at 0.5%

The government doesn't know of half the fraud that goes on. I can count on two hands the number of BRITISH people in my area who are known by residents to be commiting benefit fraud. Many more who have multiple children with multiple partners.

EvaHarknessRose · 14/04/2019 13:39

I agree with a safety net and good universal services. Unfortunately agreeing the height of the safety net is always going to be difficult and never fair.

NaturatintGoldenChestnut · 14/04/2019 13:39

10 years visas. Maybe we should give pass books to feckless, lazy Brits? Ship them to the Scottish Islands?

What an ignorant, arsehole post. Angry

RosaWaiting · 14/04/2019 13:40

"6 ppl in 1 bed flat is not uncommon."

to me, that is part of the definition of overpopulation and it's a global problem.

interesting that lack of state help hasn't done anything to prevent that scenario.

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:41

10 years visas. Maybe we should give pass books to feckless, lazy Brits? Ship them to the Scottish Islands?

This is not meant seriously BTW. Just to highlight the absurdity of the suggestion of a 10 year visa.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 14/04/2019 13:41

Whilst fraud costs the country, its the cost of the benefits to people who could do far more but choose not to or who make choices they can't afford but expect others to pay for. Imagine what we could use that money for instead.

If we removed most of the benefits and just had a welfare state for job loss (limited time to claim), sickness and disability then we'd really lower costs and be able to afford more teachers, more nurses, treatments etc.

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:42

Cross posted NaturatintGoldenChestnut

Trull · 14/04/2019 13:43

These are the statistics for fraud and error in the benefits system, so we can stop the underinformed catastrophising:

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2016-to-2017-estimates

British people of all classes seem to think it's their god given right to reproduce as many offspring as they desire, without thinking of the long term consequences of doing so.

The current UK birthrate isn't even at replacement rate.

what can you really do about people having children they can’t afford the basics for

Make it punishable by law for failure to financially provide. Harsh penalties would soon correct the situation.

Do elaborate. Imprison offenders, so that you remove any possibility of them working and providing for their children, and which is expensive, and take their children into care, at a huge cost to the state? Hmm

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:43

IceCreamAndCandyfloss wages would have to increase to make that possible.

InspectorClouseauMNdivision · 14/04/2019 13:43

@RosaWaiting that's in a state provided social housing. It's never meant to be forever. It's just so they are not on a street for the time being.

Cupfullofjoy · 14/04/2019 13:45

Do elaborate. Imprison offenders, so that you remove any possibility of them working and providing for their children, and which is expensive, and take their children into care, at a huge cost to the state? hmm

Community service - so they can at least contribute to society for once, and at the time they will hopefully learn the value of doing so.

silvercuckoo · 14/04/2019 13:47

@JuniorAsparagus
I would not call it work ethic in the traditional definition of "ethics". It was beaten into people during Soviet times that it is shameful to rely on state handouts (and there was special government-approved terminology for non-working people - "drones", "idle" etc.).
To a large degree the same attitude prevailed even after the system collapsed.

slipperywhensparticus · 14/04/2019 13:48

I pay more on my childminder than on my rent (she is worth it) but those two Bill's wipe out my earnings so what do we eat? How do I pay council tax? Water? Shit i dont need to list them if i work more hours i lose it in childcare in the holidays i work for nothing approximately 60 earnings a day same for childcare I rely on tax credits to eat and that is wrong but I'm stuck with it it's my life now I'm on my own my ex wont pay he looks after them one working day in the holiday but that will change soon so it's even tighter I hate this life but the alternative which is benefits doesn't exist anymore as my youngest is five what the hell am I supposed to do 🤷‍♀️

wheresmymojo · 14/04/2019 13:49

When I create a time machine I will take these people and deposit them in the 1800s without any money and let them crack on.

CanILeavenowplease · 14/04/2019 13:50

Make it punishable by law for failure to financially provide. Harsh penalties would soon correct the situation

Then what happens to the children whilst their parents are being punished? They go into the care system? At what cost? Do we not hand such children back until their otherwise working but not earning enough parents earn more?

Iggly · 14/04/2019 13:52

I can count on two hands the number of BRITISH people in my area who are known by residents to be commiting benefit fraud. Many more who have multiple children with multiple partners

I don’t anyone who’s committed benefit fraud etc. What’s your point exactly? You live in a small microcosm and have no insight into the % of fraud across the whole of the population.