To be amazed by the amount of people who think the state shouldnt help people?

[malificent7]

I mean with job creation, welfare, regulation of private employers etc.
I hear so many times...its not the state's job to do x, y and z.

So what is the point of gaving a state if it cannot produce conditions for people to thrive?

Of course some take the piss but the state shouldctry to peovide more jobs and less zero hour contracts, they should regulate how the private sector treats employees, they should moderate wages anf provide housing.

Of course, some take the piss but most have a genuine need and the state dosnt want to know.

Inliverpool1- I don’t understand your post- and what job pays less then it did 20 years ago?

SnuggyBuggy- Get a second job then

RosaWaiting-

We could offer young, healthy immigrants a 10 year working visa, after which they have to leave.

It benefits us, benefits them

I get what you're saying OP, but really state intrusion is getting a bit much. As an immigrant of nearly a generation, I find the British nanny state suffocating.

This country is over populated and NOT due to immigration. British people of all classes seem to think it's their god given right to reproduce as many offspring as they desire, without thinking of the long term consequences of doing so.

Lots of jobs pay less than they do 20 years ago. Mine paid £26,500 plus car in 1999 I regularly see it advertised at £25,000 and those with 20 years experience command around £32,500 hardly in line with inflation is it ?

Inliverpool1- Why wouldn’t getting a second job help?

Minimum wage has increased from £3.60 to £7.83 since 1999!

Also, if you earned £25K in 1999, I find it hard to believe you couldn’t save up/ buy anything, especially with a double income, house prices were FAR lower

This country is over populated and NOT due to immigration. British people of all classes seem to think it's their god given right to reproduce as many offspring as they desire, without thinking of the long term consequences of doing so

What’s the average number of children per family..... I think it’s around 2. So you speak nonsense.

what job pays less then it did 20 years ago

Accountancy for one. There are jobs today being advertised for the same qualification/experience level as 20 years ago with the same or lower pay offered. I saw one the other week, fully qualified chartered accountant, 10 years experience, manager level for just £45k - a complete joke - I was on more than that in the mid 1990's in the same town. Wage levels have been vitually static in some professions.

Iggly Darkatendoftunnel has articulated beautifully what I wanted to say. I would also add, how deep do you want state involvement in our lives to be? I think the state should be legislating for far higher wages, as atm, the taxpayer is subsidising businesses. If a proper living wage was paid, that money could be diverted elsewhere.

I would like a small state doing the basics very well, rather than the bloated system of govt, agencies and quangos we have now.

WitchesGlove - we did buy a house, it hasn’t helped because childcare swallowed one wage, the mortgage hasn’t been inflated away as it should have. Got divorced, crystal ball must have been faulty, suddenly here I am with a nearly £250,000 mortgage, 43, kids about to start uni. Thought I know the obvious solution to all this, I’ll get a job. Oh wait.

I’m all for helping people in need. But I’m not paying tax etc for people to live a life of bloody Riley.

Yes, you can have an awesome lifestyle on £384.62 pw, when the "affordable" rent on your HA home is £229 pw, and you have 2 children.

Perhaps you'd like to work out a budget that will enable that single parent to feed and clothe them all on the £155 that's left after paying rent, and pay the council tax, water and energy charges (£10, £9 and £22). Oh, they'll need a tv licence too, as they won't be able to afford to go out, and internet access. And £6.50 every fortnight for the bus fare to the job centre, and the delivery charge for the online shop, as the nearest supermarket is also a £6.50 bus trip away ...

This particular mum was in tears of despair when her DS (13) came home from school with the sole hanging off one of his school shoes. She had no idea how she was going to afford another pair, and couldn't send him to school in trainers.

To be honest the overpopulation problem is largely due to immigration and free movement. Women are having fewer children these days, and many women remain childless through choice compared to 20 years ago, so not sure massive population increase can be blamed on increase in having children because i see most parents with two children these days rather than three/four averaged 30 years ago.

I mean obviously you do get a job or create one in my case and go self employed but it’s not made a dent. I cannot really spend a single penny because if the mortgage isn’t gone by the time my child support dries up I’ll be out on my ear ... homeless at 53 despite having bought at 23 and worked two jobs

I think it is some people's sense of entitlement that is the issue. Not what the state provides. I.e I can have 6 kids that I know I can't afford and the council have to provide me with a 5 bedroom home attitude.

You can’t get a state pension without paying NIC, you have to have a minimum of 35 years contribution for a full pension.

Yes, you can. You get "credits" when you don't work due to home responsibility. You get "credits" on certain benefits. You get "credits" if you earn more than the lower earnings limit for NIC, a level at which you don't actually pay any NIC. So, yes, people can get state pension without paying any NIC if they qualify for "credits" for enough years in other ways.

We could offer young, healthy immigrants a 10 year working visa, after which they have to leave.

It doesn't benefit anyone. No one will spend 10 years building a life here just so they have to abandon it. That's bloody ridiculous.

Why should I get a second job? Why would I want to give up more than 40 hours a week on work?

I mean if I was facing homelessness or starvation I'd have to but it doesn't make it right.

Also although minimum wage may have been £3.60 in 1999 I don’t know anyone who worked for that amount. I had a weekend bar job, £7.50 an hour, rising to £10 after midnight. Main job working for British gas, still at uni so no qualifications, I think was £13.25 per hour, plus car.

InspectorClouseauMNdivision - Australia does exactly that. 4 years then you’re out or retrain as a foreign student ie no student loan and fees up front. Thousands pay out every year

@Inliverpool1 4 years and 10 years is a bloody difference.

InspectorClouseauMNdivision - not really, people settle pretty quickly

@Inliverpool1 as someone who is going on 11th year in uk I am telling you that 4 years and 10 years are completely different.

This country is over populated and NOT due to immigration. British people of all classes seem to think it's their god given right to reproduce as many offspring as they desire, without thinking of the long term consequences of doing so

What’s the average number of children per family..... I think it’s around 2. So you speak nonsense.

Not nonsense. Large social welfare families who have 6, 7, 8 children and get: free education, free health care, free legal aid, free housing, discounts on just about everything. Then we have large "wealthy" families who also put pressure on the health and education systems, who also put pressure on the environment, who are also entitled.

The pressure on the state to provide is compounded by these families.

Where does it stop though? Where is the balance? In economies which are entirely state provided there is still a privileged elite based on having the right connections (just a lot more poor people and a lot less opportunity). I personally the state should provide a safety net and regulate the excesses of capitalism to ensure fair competition and equality of opportunity. But it shouldn’t and can’t look after everyone all the time.

I think it is some people's sense of entitlement that is the issue. Not what the state provides. I.e I can have 6 kids that I know I can't afford and the council have to provide me with a 5 bedroom home attitude.

Feckless women AND men who should be made to practise both restraint and birth control.