To be amazed by the amount of people who think the state shouldnt help people?

[malificent7]

I mean with job creation, welfare, regulation of private employers etc.
I hear so many times...its not the state's job to do x, y and z.

So what is the point of gaving a state if it cannot produce conditions for people to thrive?

Of course some take the piss but the state shouldctry to peovide more jobs and less zero hour contracts, they should regulate how the private sector treats employees, they should moderate wages anf provide housing.

Of course, some take the piss but most have a genuine need and the state dosnt want to know.

No one ever thinks they’re going to end up disabled / have a disabled child / have a serious illness / end up old and in a hospice etc etc etc. Most people who don’t agree with a welfare state have never experienced life on the other side of the fence

I think running parallel to this is everyone knowing someone who’s circumstances are less than perfect but who manages well. I manage as a single parent of 3 - but I do that because I have no mortgage, family support to help when children were ill (although no longer), and a profession that works reasonably well around the children. It also offers a couple of income-making off-shoots which increases my income whilst working from home. It would be easy to stand and look at me and say ‘well, she manages it, so why can’t you?’ to a single mum of three with no support, massive rent, a struggle with Universal Credit, and a minimum wage job but our situations are really not comparable.

In my opinion, people thriving in the face of illness and adversity often do so because they have savings, support, family money to buy equipment needed to be able to work, skills and education that pays higher than average salaries so going part time is still a substantial income, personal resilience, good mental health etc. Of course, thousands succeed despite the adversity but it’s easy to see that for some, the obstacles are just so difficult to overcome. Unfortunately, I believe many make a choice to actively ignore the obstacles and only see people who manage and use them as a stick to beat others with. My disabled friend can work 50 hours a week so why can’t yours?

Liverpool "Literally from birth most of us are in a deficit we will never pay back."

if that's true, it shouldn't be so hard for women to get sterilised on the NHS.

We are in a situation where we are losing jobs to automation. It is blindness to suggest otherwise. Have a look at how many retail jobs have been lost in 10 years. Let's start asking these questions now before 'voluntary' euthanasia of everyone over 30 and earning less than £35k becomes a thing.

RosaWaiting - shall we reword that to people ? I’m happy to sterilise you if that’s what you want 🤷‍♀️

The very ethos of welfare has been eroded by Tory propaganda and Labour malaise.
I'm glad I got ill when I did and feel lucky that I've had a managed reduction of work.
I wouldn't be able to navigate today's support and be ill, no chance.

Look at the kind of new jobs that are being created too. Social media reputation massager? PR? It's all propaganda, bread and circuses, to keep people quiet and complacent.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel invest in small businesses.

I run a business. I employ people more on an ad hoc basis. Those people run businesses who employ people on a permanent basis.

Government shouldn’t really do anything which involves creating jobs because they are in government to run things not to be in business.
The problem is when government run “businesses” there are too many “chiefs” and no one person deciding on the direction and it all ends with overly expensive jobs.

I think people need to start looking at getting off the grid more seriously. I’m a long way from it personally but that’s my long term plan

invest in small businesses.

That's a principle of left-wing anti-globalist economics, and yes I agree with it being a part of the solution.

liverpool

I don't think men have nearly as much trouble getting sterilised on the NHS, hence why I said "women". I am not an expert, but I am a bit of a campaigner and participate in a group linked to the local surgery and hospital.

I won't harp on as I don't want to derail the thread.

GoneForGood-

No, not just the rich, but you should be financially stable and able to afford children. People never bother to save up, when they know they can just claim Tax Credits instead.

As I said in my original post, the world is overpopulated- we don’t actually need people of any financial status to have any more children.

I’m all for helping people in need. But I’m not paying tax etc for people to live a life of bloody Riley

May be a few years out of date, but for someone on a £50,000 yearly salary, £6 of the tax they pay monthly goes to the dwp. That’s to cover all benefits, not just Jsa.

And most people on benefits are not living the life of Riley. Most people on benefits work.

Mirime- Why is immmigration such an unpopular option? (Apart from racism, of course).

The world is overpopulated, and we have an ageing population, yet we don’t want to pay people Tax Credits, CB, Housing Benefit etc, so immigration is the perfect solution (provided we only take young, healthy, childless ones)

because they're Tory scum.

Anyone can find themselves in need of help; a few mistakes, series of unfortunate events, it's despicable that this type of attitude has become acceptable to some people and they broadcast it on social media, cold and heartless.

Witches I agree, we have a major overpopulation problem

but you mean immigration as a solution to what? Sorry, you've mentioned benefits so I'm a bit confused as to what you are saying.

You can't save up if all your wages go on your basic outgoings like rent, utilities and commute.

Some smug fucker may come along and say "rent somewhere cheaper" but often the cheapest grottiest place you can find to rent is still going to be a huge proportion of your income.

Too many people coming to the well. We are absolutely over populated in the U.K. impacting school places, GP surgeries, A&E, roads and homes. We are at breaking point and it doesn’t matter how much more money the government make available, it will never be enough.

RosaWaiting- Immigration is the solution to having to many old people in the population and not enough workers to pay for them/ care for them.

It’s much cheaper than people here having children.

SnuggyBuggy-

Many people could work overtime/ get a second job if they want to save up. They won’t though, because Tax Credits will pay out.

Because these things actually make things worse. State activity costs money. That money is taken away from tax payers and prevent natural economic growth. If it actually helped I doubt anyone would object but it’s been well established that state interference is detrimental to the economy. It’s pretty basic.

@lovelovebehapoy it’s woulfnt be an issue if British people paid for their own living costs inteasd of leeching off the state.

Witches

that doesn't work though does it? People are going to have children, whether they are immigrants or not!

unless you start offering specific jobs and saying "you can't have DC while you are here" but then you won't get many takers!

WitchesGlove - so we (boyfriend and I) at the time got second jobs to save up to buy a house before kids. It didn’t help, because the salary I was on in 1999 similar roles are paying less for now.

I am very much in favour of a state safety net when a person needs that help. What slightly annoys me, as previous pp's have stated, but each benefit seems to have such arbitary levels. Look at this:

"Families on incomes of up to £58,000 a year (or £66,000 a year if there is at least one child who is less than a year old) can benefit from Child Tax Credit whether or not they are working. This money is to acknowledge and support the costs of bringing up children"

This is fine, but I actually think that's quite a high threshold, they would also be getting CB up to this level.

This quote is from a NHS website for Nurses/Midwives etc, and links back to a pp who said it is awful that Nurses/Midwives are "having" to claim Tax Credits..... but this is available to all workers up to that level, and therefore not necessarily an indication of in work poverty.

Also, pp's claiming the state should run public services without profit. That's fine, until you realise that your pensions are all invested in these large profit making corporations, and that if you penalise them you are putting your final pensions at risk. You see large chunk of profits going out to investors, and think they are all private investors, they are not, they are in the main pension funds, including state pension funds.

My workplace hasn't done paid overtime in years, you get TOIL (which you can't fucking take due to the workload). It also doesn't help people who would have to pay for more childcare.