AIBU- how do you treat men trying it on?

[wwydoo]

A week ago I was staying at a hotel in Manchester with my boyfriend, we woke up thirsty so I went to Tesco Express to fetch some things. Whilst sitting on a bench waiting for it to open a guy approached me. He extended his hand out for a handshake but I refused it and was called a "fucking bitch". I felt safe as there were plenty of people around.

I always just ignore random men on the street, even if they are just saying "hello". I was discussing this with friends over dinner and was genuinely surprised that a couple of them said they do engage to avoid "escalation". Not the approach I have AT ALL.

AIBU what you do?

Christ how deluded are you that you interpret 'hello' or ' morning' as hitting on you!

It's pretty easy to differentiate politeness from someone being a creep.

You're in a public place, you see a guy with Channing Tatum (or insert another miscellaneous hunk here) levels of hotness, he flashes a smile at you and you go all weak at the knees. He comes over and says hi. You're instantly glad he did. Would you be as likely to instantly class him as a creep?

That is not the situation I'm describing at all.

@Cookiedoughorbust

First of all I've neither said nor implied that I'm the base example for all men. I'm giving examples of my own behaviour though because I have 38 years of examples of it stored in memory. I fully understand that people out there behave poorly, as I've acknowledged over and over again.

Also, I think many people, you especially are misinterpreting my original post on this thread. What I said was that someone sees you, thinks you're wonderful and approaches. One person on this thread said that to talk to a compete stranger a man must be a creep and I'm saying that's not necessarily the case. I do appreciate that some people behave poorly. I also know there are creeps out there, but the notion that someone is a creep simply because they're talking to you in public is just fundamentally flawed.

So even though your example is rather odd (given that the OP was not semi-exposed in a public toilet at the time) I'll answer your question. I'll assume that my situation in a public toilet is there to mirror the vulnerability that females might feel in public places.

If a guy said that to me I think I'd probably respond 'thank you, but you probably shouldn't be trying to look at people's dicks in public toilets because it's strange'.

If on the other hand I was approached with an outstretched hand in a more normal public place I'd probably shake it.

@wwydoo

I know it's not the situation you're describing. It's the situation I'm describing.

I'm asking if people would be upset by that introduction in the same way, because as I said earlier on, I think that the irritation we feel merely by an introduction might be related to how attractive we find the person.

I was responding more to the person who said anyone introducing themselves or talking to a stranger in public is definitely a creep.

Of course the are creepy people around and I feel largely disappointed by men hearing the stories of creepiness and rudeness being described. I'm just saying that not all approaches are unwelcome and not all men talking to strangers are creeps.

What I'm saying is that without introductions happening and without people ever having the guts to say hello and talk to you there would probably be no such thing as relationships. They do after all have to start somewhere

@Benjimoon I’m happy to get chatting to men I don’t know at my hobbies, over lunch at my busy work place, at community groups I go to or through friends. I do not want to be approached in the street by total strangers who have a sexual interest in me ever. It isn’t appropriate. The man I mentioned in my first post was extremely good looking. I still turned him down because I don’t start up relationships with strange men who think it’s ok to go “Hi my name’s Dave, wanna go out some time?” to a much younger much smaller woman who is out alone in public minding her own business. And also, because the most important thing I’m looking for in a man is emotional intelligence not looks! In that instance, he actually knew he was going to see me again as he knew I knew his family. He’d have every opportunity to meet me and chat to me in an appropriate space and time, and after a few chats it would have been fine to ask me out. Instead he accosted me on the street and made me feel afraid as I’d never seen him in my life.

I usually say Hi and maybe chitchat but I'm usually wearing earphones and they are a great barrier! A guy tried to stop me yesterday to talk and I just smiled and walked confidently past with my earphones on.

*I'm just saying that not all approaches are unwelcome and not all men talking to strangers are creeps.”

But we’ve all collectively had so many bad experiences from being little girls where a man has said hello and then we’ve realised he’s wanking at us or tries to shake our hand then attempts to grab us or, what happened to me aged 12, nicely asked us what we were ordering and then later sexually assaulted me when I went to the toilets in McDonalds that we don’t know who is a creep and would rather not be put in a position were we are placed in danger again. I’ll also point out that you never see women on here saying, “but how is a man supposed to approach you and let you know you’re beautiful and ask you out? Not all men are creeps you know!” Only ever men. We are are all trying to let you know how it makes us feel and you are ignoring us and minimising our experiences because you seem to think that it’s more important for men to be able to approach women they don’t know because they find them physically attractive than it is for women to feel safe in their everyday lives.

EleanorOalike Well said!

Eleanor well said.

I dont care if a man looks like an angel I do not want him approaching me. A polite good morning whilst walking past is fine, I reply politely without breaking my step I keep walking, but thats it.

I have 2 daughters and its bloody depressing that by age of say 12, girls have to navigate this shit too.

Women going about their daily business are NOT public property we don't have to speak to or welcome aporoaches from random men, but sadly it seems to be yet another unwanted and unasked for expectation/obligation created by men, for women who are nothing to do with them.

My earphones are staying on.

Benjimoon

This is what we face though, and this is how the majority of women feel, but its still 'but what about' or 'but how will mankind survive'. We tell men we dont want it full stop but men cant accept it. Most women have spent their whole lives discussing with other women that we DON'T want it, good looking or not.

Maybe it would for some, but it makes no difference to me if they are attractive or not. They are still a stranger who i do not want to talk to, that could be completely bonkers etc. There are plenty of beautiful men who are fucking awful, dangerous, predators. By their 20s most women have learnt exactly that and experienced it all and had to learn the hard way.

I felt this way both single and in a relationship, about being approached. I felt this way even when i was desperate to find love.

Most women (unlessin a really crowded situation or if we are busy, preoccupued etc) have already clocked you. We constantly scan our environments, but not in a nice carefree way, we've already seen you. One single smile or meeting of eyes is NOT a come on. Thats usually a woman being a normal friendly human with eyes and looking around and happening to meet another humans gaze.

I think again its about males being entitled and miffed that we are saying NO we dont like it and saying 'oh yeah well i bet you would if i was xyz'. No. We've just said no.

Also men don't realise, do you know how often it is that it is someone being in any way genuine, non invasive, treatening or non smarmy? 5% of the time, if that. And we still dont fucking want it. You truly have no IDEA what bullshit 'interactions' many women experience on the whole. You might think saying hello is innocent and easy, but we've responded 'hello' to then be followed, groped, whispered disgusting things at just as we pass by. You think its simple and straight forward but you have NO idea. Its so everyday and common for so many women.

We are interrupted constantly during moments of peace, sat in the sun in a park, feeding birds, eating a sandwich, reading a book, staring out a window, jogging, walking, shopping. It is exhausting. Just believe us and accept it. Humanity and mankind and relationships will survive without it.

Benjimoon, thank you. With your endless witless prating and your insistence that this is somehow an issue that requires discussion from men rather than a change of behaviour, you have beautifully illustrated that men need to listen to women.

Not that attractive to worry about it, had a few encounters with people that have issues ... when I was younger had to get a police man to have a word as the gentleman in question would sit outside he shop I worked at all day waiting for me to come out It was creepy all because I avoided confrontation and said hi back once .

Exactly NottonightJosefine.

I also doubt he would be quite so calm and relaxed about it if there was as a significant strength/weight/height difference between him and the guy as there can easily be between a man and a woman ...

Benji - in your scenario, this nice man just wants to tell the woman (who he has never spoken to) that she is "wonderful".
But he has never spoken to her. He knows nothing about her personality, her views, her criminal past. So it isn't that he thinks that she is "wonderful" - it is that he thinks she is sexually attractive and he would like to have sex with her.

The woman is not an idiot. She understands exactly what he means when he comes over to tell her she is "wonderful" - and it can very easily be automatically terrifying when some random stranger comes up to you and tells you, in a coded way, that they have judged you and found you suitable for sex.

So yes, people need to be able to speak to other people. But the first thing you say to someone shouldn't be essentially :" I want to have sex with you" especially a woman alone.

So talk to women about the football when they are the pub with their friends or Brexit when you are talking to a group at a social occasion or about holiday tips for Spain to someone at a hobby group or about the music when out in a pub with your friends.
But don't approach women alone, getting on with the lives, waiting for a bus or jogging in a park and pretend they are "wonderful" - you don't know them so they know what you mean is "worthy of sex" and that is creepy as hell

Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them

Margaret Atwood.

Benji....have a little think about how your rebuttals that NAMALT come across on a female dominated website.

*If a guy said that to me I think I'd probably respond 'thank you, but you probably shouldn't be trying to look at people's dicks in public toilets because it's strange'.

I would be terrified and in fear of sexual assault. You speak from your position of male privilege and you won't acknowledge or try to understand that..*

@NottonightJosepheen spot on!!!

*So it isn't that he thinks that she is "wonderful" - it is that he thinks she is sexually attractive and he would like to have sex with her.

The woman is not an idiot. She understands exactly what he means when he comes over to tell her she is "wonderful" - and it can very easily be automatically terrifying when some random stranger comes up to you and tells you, in a coded way, that they have judged you and found you suitable for sex.*

Oh yes. This all over. It actually makes me feel disgusted and repulsed at myself. Two days ago I had a similar experience with not one man but two separate groups of men at the gym. I left and sat in the car park and cried. When I’d rejected ones advances he had turned cruel and derogatory about my appearance.

I didn’t care. What upset me was that I’d been targeted because I was a different biological sex to them. That they could walk into a gym and get on with a workout uninterrupted every single day of their lives. That I was reduced to just a face, a pair of tits, an ass. Something to be used for just fucking. When that is not what I am. I am so much more than what I look like. I’m a human being with emotions, life experiences, thoughts, opinions. But right then, in that gym I was reduced to being on a par with a blow up doll.

You will never know how that feels @Benjimoon and I doubt that the fact most women have to go through this each time they go out in public would bother you that much.

What I said was that someone sees you, thinks you're wonderful and approaches

If ever one sentence epitomised male privilege.

Benjimoon you just don't get it do you?

Women are prey. We grow up knowing we're prey and then get to spend the rest of our lives learning how to deal with it and trying to protect ourselves.

It doesn't matter what a man looks like or how 'nice' he is, we're still prey and quite often don't want to spend the mental energy on having to figure out if he's a predator. It might just be a friendly "hello" to you, to us it's "here we fucking go again" when all we want to do is catch the bus, do our shopping, get a coffee, go home from work etc.

I've ensured that I've spent all my life looking ugly and wear a miserable look on my face whilst avoiding eye contact so I've not been hassled much, but I still feel like prey because you never forget that men are something not to be trusted.

If a guy said that to me I think I'd probably respond 'thank you, but you probably shouldn't be trying to look at people's dicks in public toilets because it's strange'

And when he calls you a stuck-up cunt who can't even accept a harmless compliment without getting bitchy about it? Then tells you to go fuck yourself, cunt? Then follows you for a bit after you leave and you don't know whether it's to just to frighten you or whether he is actually dangerous?

Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them

This. With bells on.

Man walks up to a woman in a public place and his worst case scenario is that she laughs in his face and calls him an ugly fucker. Woman's worst fear is that this encounter will become part of a CrimeWatch reconstruction.

Benjimoon speaks as if he has connections with the 'pickup artist' community, he seems to have that sort of mindset.

My 15yo DD is approached by men all the time, Okay she does look older but she HATES it. For a start she is generally with other girls of her age who do look younger, why are these men hitting on her when she is obviously out with other children.

I think that the prevelance of poem means that s lot of men see women as effectively 2D images, just things to look at, with no other purpose and certainly no feelings or other importance.

The message from porn is hot young women in your location want to have sex with you NOW, that attractive young women are happy to sexually service older men.