To ask if you've become more of a feminist

[Whatafustercluck]

Either as you've got older or because you're raising a girl?

Just curious really. I never considered myself a feminist before, but I'm currently involved in a heated debate about a mother who has taken issue with the wording on girls' and boys' clothes labels in Asda. The level of ignorance of the real issues on there is astounding.

For full disclosure I have a boy (8) and a girl (2). Last night I was left slightly dumbfounded when showing parkour/ free running videos to my son and he said: "Oh! I didn't know girls could do parkour!" I challenged him of course, but I haven't raised him to think that way and it just made me realise how despite our best efforts, children are so susceptible to social conditioning. It made me quite cross (not with him, despite this comment he's usually pretty switched on and usually challenges assumptions about girls and boys).

I was always a feminist but when I was younger I idealistically felt like equality had been achieved- I grew up thinking I could be or do whatever I wanted, I felt completely equal to the boys at school/ university etc.

As others said, it was having children that really opened my eyes to the inequality all around. The fact that I get asked about childcare in every single job interview. The fact that while my career dwindled as I took maternity leave and went part time, my (now ex) DH’s career sky rocketed as he worked longer hours, not having to worry about the practicalities of childcare. The way that he was able to take off and move away when we split up, because he wanted his freedom, leaving me with the full time responsibility of bringing up the DC, but people still see him as a good dad because he sees them EOW.

Not to mention the news reports about sexual assaults going unconvicted, the victim blaming, the fact that I can’t buy my DD T-shirt’s without fucking unicorns or fairies on. I’m a teacher and had to challenge material about e-safety that I was asked to teach recently as one of the questions for the students to answer (after watching a cautionary tale about girls being groomed online by an older man) was “what did the girls do wrong?”

I feel like the more I notice everyday sexism, the more it appears, until you realise it’s actually everywhere.

oh the pornification is absolutely vile. I keep thinking about when it happened. What was the point where porn went from being seedy and embarrassing to empowering?
Saw a poster today for JLO’s latest offering. Completely pornified of course. Isn’t she 50? Just embarrassing to still be acting like that without the excuse of misguided youth.

I've definitely become more of a feminist as I've got older- and I wasn't too bad a feminist at a young age. Having boys has made me realise how negative patriarchy is for (very many) men, as well as being awful for women. Prior to having them I just assumed the patriarchy was totally positive for men.

It's interesting that some men find the patriarchy problematic too, isn't it? I'm heartened by it. It shows that some women are doing a fine job in raising their sons and the women in those guys' lives will benefit from it.

One of the things that radical feminists have been saying for ages is that the patriarchy is bad for men too.

One of the things that radical feminists have been saying for ages is that the patriarchy is bad for men too.

Indeed. Pointing out how toxic masculinity is responsible for the prevalence of male mental health issues and high suicide rates is something I point out with increasing frequency.

Yes definitely more as I 've got older, and having had 3 children, the youngest being a girl. She's definitely had socialization at school - girls don't play football, doctors are men, women nurses etc and watching old Disney films where the princess solely dreams of being pretty and having long swishy hair and marrying a Prince at age 16! My DD is used to my commentaries on the above examples and more, she rolls her eyes, but my comments are sinking in and she's questioning more now.

I grew up feminist though as a reaction against my bully of a father, and cowed mother. He was incredibly sexist and misogynistic. I wasn't allowed to help him outside with the car, or do DIY , apparently I'd have a husband to do all that for me - I was told to go in the kitchen and help my mum like a good girl! Didn't turn out like that as I'm a single mum, breadwinner, and have to do all the jobs myself anyway.

No I’m not feminist at all and haven’t really changed

Absolutely. I think if I'd never had children I would never have realised the double standards and inequalities we are up against.

“No I’m not feminist at all and haven’t really changed”

I am fascinated by women who say they aren’t feminist. I assume that because you posted this on here you won’t mind me asking if you’ll
say a bit more?

I have without a doubt become more of a feminist the older I've got, I'm in my 50s now. I've found it particularly important as I have sons & feminism has very much informed how I've brought up my boys. I hope I've managed to raise three very aware young men.

Yes hugely as I've got older. Positively, I didn't perceive any sexism against me at school, college, university or in my early career (teacher). Then I got married and that changed hugely. I battled to get promotions while my husband was handed them on a plate. My eyes have been opened to inequality and I feel awful for more marginalised groups e.g non-white women. There is still a long way to go and I do worry that a lot of my peers feel equality for women has been achieved.

Definitely become more of a feminist the older I've got. I went through the phase of thinking we didn't really need feminism any more. Then I woke up to the real world.

I think when people say “they’re not a feminist” they don’t mean they don’t believe in equality they mean they don’t actively push women’s position. (Sorry I appear to be particularly inarticulate this morning).
A bit like the difference between saying “I advocate for proportional representation” and “I’m not racist”. If you asked me I would say “I believe in equality”, but I doubt I’d say “I’m a feminist” though I expect in practice I am.

My sister teaches at Uni... she's fairly depressed that young female undergrads are convinced that all the battles have been won and that there is equality of the sexes. This is before they enter the workplace, obviously. She is also involved in student counselling, and is finding the pornification of sexual relationships among young people to be absolutely, utterly depressing. Like, anything goes, absolutely anything, and young women being expected to play the roles that are laid out in porn. No love, just sex and exploitation. And many, many young men with absolutely no understanding (nor desire to understand) what "consent" means.

For me, I have two boys but my closest friend has a girl of the same age as my eldest. It's eye opening to compare their experiences as they grow up. They are 12 now, so we've watched them all through the pink princess / mummy's little soldier years. Recently, at her dance class my friend's daughter was told that the end of year show theme was going to be "sexy women", and that they'd be wearing hotpants, boob tubes (she doesn't have any boobs to hold it up) and knee length boots. This is a class for 11-15 year olds and the teacher thought this was appropriate. My son has never been told to "dress sexy" for any activity he has ever undertaken. It's fucking ridiculous, and it's this contrast that is making me even more feminist.

@BogstandardBelle thats depressing about the dance class. Did your friend say anything to the teacher about it?