To ask if you've become more of a feminist

[Whatafustercluck]

Either as you've got older or because you're raising a girl?

Just curious really. I never considered myself a feminist before, but I'm currently involved in a heated debate about a mother who has taken issue with the wording on girls' and boys' clothes labels in Asda. The level of ignorance of the real issues on there is astounding.

For full disclosure I have a boy (8) and a girl (2). Last night I was left slightly dumbfounded when showing parkour/ free running videos to my son and he said: "Oh! I didn't know girls could do parkour!" I challenged him of course, but I haven't raised him to think that way and it just made me realise how despite our best efforts, children are so susceptible to social conditioning. It made me quite cross (not with him, despite this comment he's usually pretty switched on and usually challenges assumptions about girls and boys).

I think I have. Now more than ever, I am engaging in discussions around it, researching feminism, and challenging sexist behaviour. Very proud to call myself a feminist. That being said, I strongly disagree with most of the rhetoric on the FWR boards on here, and am pleased with the way that people nowadays are questioning gender and the roles within it. So, according to MN, probably not a feminist at all.

As the mother of boys I read these forums and weep (figuratively). Equality goes without saying, but as with most things, it all goes too far.

I'm a bit confused here . How can equality go too far? Given the meaning of the word equal, if women suddenly start running society and discriminating against men (as if), well, that wouldn't be equality, would it?

Yes definitely

Much more confident in challenging sexist views to ensure my daughter grows up proud of being a woman.

No. As the mother of boys I read these forums and weep

Why?

Feminism doesn't feel inclusive of all women. The boards on MN are a case in point.

Utter nonsense. ALL women are welcome on the feminist boards, even a foul mouthed uneducated woman like me. I’ve never felt looked down upon by the other women on their. If anything I find them incredibly welcoming to women who are uncertain as to whether they have anything to add.

Misogynistic men (and women) come from all backgrounds and no one questions that. Why would anyone question if a woman is ‘educated’ enough to be a feminist. Total and utter nonsense.

I have 2 boys but I think becoming a mother really opened my eyes up to sexism in society- childbirth and maternity care, our roles as parents in the home and workplace and so on.

I've always been a feminist - was brought up by very feminist parents - but I would say I am far more enraged at the world and the realities of patriarchy now, in my early 40s. Partly the result of having experienced pregnancy and birth and parenting, partly getting older, partly because battles I naively assumed were done and dusted are having to be re-fought and progress I anticipated 25 years ago hasn't been realised.

And I know numerous women who thought workplace equality was fine until they had kids and got screwed over one way or another. I think a pp says there's a difference between intellectually knowing something and having it resonate with your own experience, and that's definitely true I think.

Also there is some academic research which suggests parents of 2+ daughters are more left wing than parents of 2+ sons. The effect was far more noticeable on fathers. Which I find a bit depressing (men have to have skin in the game to care?) but unsurprising (guess personal experience / interest makes a difference).

Definitely as I've got older, and also in part as raising a girl (but also raising a boy as well). I think I used to be quite complacent, as TBH I have not personally experienced sexual harassment or outright sexism directed at me, and I've had mainly male friends (ie, I didn't have female friends who might discuss this stuff). I used to think, I'll admit, that women seemed to be complaining too much and were being oversensitive.

But online communities have changed that now that I've understood that sexism is having a massive impact on women's lives, especially the forces of a patriarchal society that keep us down by telling us we're not as important as men, that our looks matter more than anything else etc. So that even if legislatively women have equal rights, translating that to how women are treated is a whole other matter that is still woefully bad.

I've been really pleased to notice the decrease in gendered labelling since my kids were born (oldest is 10) with neutral labelling and signage now much more prevalent, though there's a way to go.

Still far too few female protagonists in TV and film - how can girls not internalise an idea that they are less important when the vast majority of people they see in their TV shows are male while half the real world is female?

I've always been a feminist.

My parents weren't but due to my mother's circumstances in her early 20s where she was widowed and couldn't get decent paying work, she brought up her daughters' to ensure they could support themselves and do it well. This rubbed off on her sons and is shown by the women they married, and to some extent on to her step children. She had still had sexist ideals and I could see unfairness in the treatment of my brothers' which as a child I questioned due to the age gap between me and my siblings.

The treatment wasn't my brothers' being waited on as they were expected to cook and do household chores but it was little things. For example if someone was needed to look after me, my sisters would be asked first when frequently it would be my brothers' who had the more flexible schedule.

i've always been a feminist but my understanding and focus has changed since becoming a mother of boys and just generally getting older.

I used to be quite focused on women making it in a mens world and that barriers against that but have moved more towards why the female role is so undervalued.

I can also see more of the negative impact of the patriarchy on men whereas I think I could only see the plus side of it before.

Also there is some academic research which suggests parents of 2+ daughters are more left wing than parents of 2+ sons. The effect was far more noticeable on fathers. Which I find a bit depressing (men have to have skin in the game to care?) but unsurprising (guess personal experience / interest makes a difference).

Yes having young children especially female children seems to make a difference to men.

I work in a male dominated industry and when I started working I noticed that the managers of the companies that employed me tended to have daughters.

Roll on about 20 years and I've noticed the people who want to use my services as a freelancer tend to have primary aged children regardless of sex and the places are more family friendly.

@S1naidSucks
Welcoming

In my cause becoming a mother to a girl opened my eyes because I don't want her to have to put up with things I am prepared to tolerate myself.

Since discovering my daughter is a lesbian I have been all the more fired up for her as I have seen the growing backlash against and marginalising of same-sex attracted women even in LGBT communities, it feels like things are going backwards for lesbians so that is the fuel for my feminism.

S1naidSucks
Welcoming

?

I'm absolutely a feminist and always have been. I'm childless but can't imagine I could feel any stronger about feminism if I wasn't.

It was nice of you to tell me what a load of rubbish I'm talking.
You don't know my experience.

Yes. It's very much a case of when you see it you can't unsee it.

I was talking to my sister and friend recently about stuff that had been in the press (women's safety gear not fitting correctly/gender pay difference, etc) and they just looked at me like I had 2 heads! They both clearly think I'm making a fuss about nothing. Friend even said she thinks I need to stop overthinking...

I found it very depressing.

It was nice of you to tell me what a load of rubbish I'm talking.
You don't know my experience.

Maybe if you share, I’d be more sympathetic. My experience is completely different. Obviously I’ve had the odd run in during discussions and had my ass handed to me on a plate, but I stayed and educated myself. That’s what grownups do.

My feminism was formed by watching my mum wait on my dad hand, foot and finger. I was 18 when The Female Eunoch was published and that had a profound effect on me. I’ve seen feminism achieve equal pay (in theory), maternity leave, maternity pay, increased availability of childcare and am delighted it has.

My son is a feminist by virtue of having been raised by a single mum, he says most women are better in every regard he can think of than most men.

But I do roll my eyes a bit when I hear “mental load” and see people getting bent out shape at the idea of buying their mil a birthday card in the name of feminism.

Most definitely. I never really considered myself a feminist before having 2 DDs, it was only after DD2 was born that my eyes were open to the level of shit women get.

Just this morning DD (who is 5) told me I wasn't her boss because her daddy was her boss and "only mens are bosses". I nearly exploded in a feminist rage.

She has also told me that girls don't have short hair and that red, yellow, blue and green are boy colours and she needed pink and purple because they are girl colours.

I'm amazed that at 5 sexist stereotypes are already showing, despite me trying to teach her that she can be who she wants to be and like whatever she wants to like.

I think I’ve become more of a feminist since last night. I had a horrible encounter with two older men treating me like a piece of meat and audibly rating my attractiveness when all I was trying to do was work out. I was the only woman in a gym full of men last night and when I moved to a different area and encountered similar behaviour from another two guys I just left because I felt uncomfortable and unsafe. It was like I was fair game for harassment and it was only because of my sex.

I went home, watched Fleabag, cried. My Dad is completely emotionally unavailable and treated my Mum and I badly growing up, ignoring me, having affairs and blaming Mum etc. My brother thinks it’s hilarious when his 15 year old is sexually harassed by men older than him and “slut shames” his own daughter. At 12, I was bullied horrifically by the boys at school because I had large breasts and had been the first girl to get her period (I confided in a female friend who told them). Until sixth form, I was constantly told I was ugly, I’d be a crap lay, I looked like a tranny, no one would want me, was held down by five of the rugby team, and had my skirt lifted up, they attempted to “check if I was on my period” by exposing my underwear, the Male teacher walked in and blamed me and told me to stop being so bloody stupid. I was offered money by them if I’d let them touch my breasts or finger me from ages 13 until 17. I was constantly blamed by parents, teachers etc. Told I should be flattered that boys only tease girls they find attractive.

Add to that fact that i have never had a relationship of any kind with a man that actually loved me or treated me with respect and that went I got both my BA and my MA my senior lecturers tried to get me into coercive relationships and would mark me down because I wouldn’t sleep with them and I guess I’m feeling like there is a bit of a universal problem with men.

And yet I am told I’m still single because I’m fussy, because that’s just how men are, constant excuses for abusive behaviour and victim blaming.

I’m sick of it and feeling very alone and disillusioned.

I’d love a relationship with a kind and decent man who respects me. But these days I think that’s totally impossible.

Utter nonsense. ALL women are welcome on the feminist boards

This is simply not true. If you don't agree with the general opinion on trans people and self identification you will get vilified and chased off those boards.

Sorry all should add, are men not welcome on the feminist boards? Men can also be feminists- my DH is one.

Your story is raw and honest El - I’m sorry you’ve dealt with so much misogynistic bullshit.

Always said i was a feminist based on equal rights for women

I am certainly more feminist as i get older but also because i have children and you realise how little some attitudes have moved

I have two boys and a girl...which really shouldn't make a difference but it does seem to when you get 'as the mother of boys...' type comments