To ask if you've become more of a feminist

[Whatafustercluck]

Either as you've got older or because you're raising a girl?

Just curious really. I never considered myself a feminist before, but I'm currently involved in a heated debate about a mother who has taken issue with the wording on girls' and boys' clothes labels in Asda. The level of ignorance of the real issues on there is astounding.

For full disclosure I have a boy (8) and a girl (2). Last night I was left slightly dumbfounded when showing parkour/ free running videos to my son and he said: "Oh! I didn't know girls could do parkour!" I challenged him of course, but I haven't raised him to think that way and it just made me realise how despite our best efforts, children are so susceptible to social conditioning. It made me quite cross (not with him, despite this comment he's usually pretty switched on and usually challenges assumptions about girls and boys).

@formerbabe I see your point but hoenstly, i'd been seeing how patriarchy affects women since i was quite young and i dont have children. Im also not white which means i've been and still am affected by intersectionality to a degree. Which is possibly why I've seen inequality a lot clearer from a young age

No. As the mother of boys I read these forums and weep (figuratively). Equality goes without saying, but as with most things, it all goes too far.

I think in my case yes, as I woke up from social conditioning and what I thought my role was in society as a woman, I had dd young so it's coincided.

Those perceived roles made me miserable and I railed against them as I got older much to the displeasure of the men in relationships.

I know it goes Much further than relationships.

My dd has come out with some corkers for gender roles and I try my best to tell her that's not how it should be or is. There's still a long way to go and I find any "win" woman have in gaining equality is turned against us somehow.

@GreytExpectations
I always believed in equality but it's since I had kids and life experience gained as I got older that I have given much more thought on the subject.
As a young woman I didn't always see how things really were. The scales fell from my eyes so to speak.

I must say, I appreciate the honesty of women on here who admit they didn't actually give much thought. Let's hope the future generations can be shaped to see these things from very young

@GreytExpectations I think we all see and experience things differently because of who we are and where we find ourselves. Like you say, you've seen and experienced and been aware of certain things because you're not white. Education, the areas we work in, family structures and dynamics, workplaces, sexuality, the countries we live in, events that happen to us ... all of these things influence what we see/experience/become aware of. I think having kids is just another variable. So maybe it is a journey for many of us ... some starting as feminists, some not (though that does surprise me tbh). Having said that I'm even more surprised that there are women who regardless of all the above don't describe themselves as feminists - ever.

Absolutely. Definitely. 100%. Yes.

I think that's I've become way more tuned in to society and its issues as I've got older.

@3timeslucky Very well said! Great post and yes its true we are shaped by our experiences.
I'm always surprised when I see on here and IRL women saying they are not feminists but I think that links back to those "man hater" who ruin feminism. As the true meaning of feminism is equality and for someone to say they don't believe in equality does baffle me. But we live in a free speech world so everyone is entitled to their incorrect opinions.

Definitely , I only noticed recently how much so .
My daughter will never grow up thinking any boy/man is worth more than her .

But feel alienated from the intellectual feminist discussions

Please don’t feel alienated. I’m far from ‘intellectual’, but I feel that every female’s voice is important. So many important laws were brought in to help protect women in work and it was the working class women that started that. We may see ‘better educated’ or ‘posh’ women talking on our behalf, but that’s only because they may have the education to succinctly explain our needs.

We’re all important and I would actually say that the working class women are the most important as we are quite often the ones most affected by the patriarchy.

I think the comparison of race and feminism is interesting.

Most reasonable people can see and would feel strongly against overt racism and sexism...but all the more subtle manifestations may pass them by if they're not directly affected.

I'm white, but my dc are mixed race. Since having them, I'm definitely more tuned in and aware of subtle racism.

Hell, yes. For both reasons.

I'm far more alert to every day misogyny and sexism than I was when I was younger. It appalls me.

I hope that I can raise my daughter to be strong and more of a feminist than I was from a young age.

It's the difference between knowing something intellectually and experiencing it practically. I realise now I was mostly insulated from inequality by my race, class and education. So it was only when I became a mum that my eyes were opened to how much gender inequality/stereotyping/custom and practice there still is. I've always considered myself a feminist but never 'needed' to be one before. It's been an eye-opener to see how much stereotyping even nice, well-meaning, educated people have in their brains from their upbringing (me too, no doubt).

I've always been a feminist (I recall being extremely pissed off at age 10 that me playing Long John Silver in the school play was a massive deal and I overheard parents complaining about it!). My parents raised me to be feminist and I saw my parents not conforming to the usual gender expectations, despite being pretty conservative. They shared domestic work equally and my mother focussed on a career where she had to fight for equality constantly.

As a result, I was perhaps naive about how much progres had been made in society. Experiencing sexism during pregnancy, after becoming a parent and being in an abusive relationship has definitely made me even more feminist. I only have sons, and have probably tried harder to raise them with as feminists than I would daughters - I will not have them growing up to disrespect women or treat them as inferior.

@formerbabe the problem is often people don't see the overlap (Intersectionality). They only see them as separate issues to be dealt with in separate areas. For example, white women can sometimes deny the fact that they are better off than a black woman. They think as woman they all suffer the same when this isn't true because of white privilege. Its a really interesting topic and Reni Eddo-lodge has a lot of insight into it in her book "Why I'm not longer talking to White people about Race" She actually talks about first hand experience of her views being shut down at feminist conventions

I've always been a feminist, I can remember as a child my mother waiting on my dad hand and foot, and I felt back then that it was wrong.

I can remember my mum telling me I'd probably stay single because if my husband asked me to make him a sandwich I'd tell him to do it himself. I'm not single and my husband knows how to make himself a sandwich.

My feminism really came to the forefront a few years after I was raped and the perpetrator walked away free. I started to really see the injustices against women in the world.

I find much of Feminist argument intimidating as well tbh. It feels like you get looked down on by the "intellectuals."
Feminism doesn't feel inclusive of all women. The boards on MN are a case in point.

No. I don’t, but I find a lot of feminist rhetoric fairly unappealing. The women in my family have not been the most disadvantaged despite how it may appear for several generations. Obviously I see the impact in the wider world but I see inequality and unfairness in many forms.

but I see inequality and unfairness in many forms

But one of those forms is sexism. How can you see inequality but not consider yourself feminist?

Only in response to the trans movement subverting the rights of women.

I’ve been a foamy mouthed feminist since I was about 9. I don’t see it abating any time soon though.

No. While I’ve become more aware of hours our society disadvantages women I have become convinced of that equality will only be achieved by liberating both sexes. I can understand how the idea of achieving equality by campaigning for women’s rights made sense a hundred years ago. Absolutely. But today equality will only be achieved by campaigning for equality.

I used to say that I wouldn't be made to dry the dishes if I was a boy but my mum just retorted that my father would have be helping in the garden or with the car if I were a boy!

But I've become more "militant" as I have got older. I remember someone trying to push in in a cashpoint queue years ago and I wouldn't let him. He told me I was a very aggressive young lady. I suspect he wouldn't have told a young man of 21 that he was being a very aggressive young man but I only thought that later.

The whole men identifying as women debate has probably turned me more feminist too especially when it comes to biological men winning prizes in womens sport.

If anything, I think society is going backwards on feminism, driven by the transgender campaigners insisting on gender stereotypes that we thought we’d scrapped decades ago. Telling boys that if they enjoy dolls or like pink, they must really be girls in the “wrong body”. Ditto girls who like football or engineering. Makes me sick.

Absolutely. And this is somehow seen as 'progress'! It's so regressive and damaging.

I’ve thought of myself as a feminist probably about from the age of 18. I’m now 43. It was when I had kids however that I really started to see the discrimination everywhere. Even what people term “little things” now just make me fume. I think that I’m hyper aware of how life is made bloody hard for women who have children. After having been made to feel like a nuisance often with my small brood. I saw a woman on the train the other day told to “please move.” by train staff to accommodate a wheelchair. Obvs they need that space and I have no issue with that at all. However No help offered to the woman with three kids a prank and luggage and off the staff strolled. The buggy she had which was a large double to accommodate her new baby and toddler and pre schooler. Didn’t fold smaller. She also had a suitcase. She got help- from other passengers but ended up sitting on a small seat opposite the toilet door. So that she could see the baby in the Oran have a toddler on her lap and the preschooler next to her. All because there is absolutely no particular planned space available on a train for a woman with a baby small children and the essential things she needs to transport them in. Why not? is her money no good?