Anon. members - Forums open to court action??

[justasking111]

Was quite shocked to see this. Will this be a test case? Mumsnet is such a tame well run site compared to the comments I see in the online press. Is the writing on the wall for free (cough) speech or is it a culling of trolling. Personally I think that something needs to be done, some folk have no filter or are just plain nasty.

news.yahoo.com/transgender-activist-wins-court-ruling-forcing-parenting-website-reveal-identity-alleged-online-abuser-121317596.html

Lime

Any chance of you responding to my question?

Like I said...of course much more discussion needs to be had about issues. Karen White should never have gone to a women’s prison for example but the question then is where does she go? Does she go to a men’s prison?

I don’t think biological sex changes ..in 1000 years if bones are excavated they will be classed as male or female based upon the hip bones and head shape (or other technology) .

I do think gender is a different issue though which is why I respect a person’s chosen gender. I shared accommodation years ago with a trans woman ....her life was shit because of her decision to live as a woman. These days her life would be much easier ...but 30 years ago it was horrible and she eventually committed suicide. It was awful, I don’t ever want us a society to go back to making life so hard for others.

However there are big issues that come along with this which I don’t feel remotely qualified to discuss. I can only say I am aware of them and I listen and read.

Again, what’s your complaint in that case? If transphobic comments are zapped, and the vast majority of posts that remain aren’t transphobic what exactly is the outcome you want? Threads like this not allowed at all on the off chance someone might post something transphobic? As in ‘no debate’?

And you know what the TRAs call many of the trans people who don’t get involved in the TWAW nonsense? Truscum. They are abused and called traitors

You realise any extremists are just that, extremists? They don't speak for all transpeople.
Just like other groups, the extremists don't speak for everyone.

Lime - I was rather hoping you’d respond to this one...

Karen White should never have gone to a women’s prison for example but the question then is where does she go? Does she go to a men’s prison?

Yes he should. Is there ANYTHING about this massive beefy bloke that makes you think he should be in a women's prison.

Use your eyes and tell me what on earth would make you question his going to a man's prison. That is the actual question - what is it that makes you call him 'she'? Why are you making this decision? What is compelling you to not use your eyes and say 'he'.

Agree they are extremists. They include cross dressers in the definition of trans and campaign for the removal of all single sex spaces. They are in charge at Stonewall and advising all of our national institutions. The extremists are in positions of power. Hence our concern.

Lime the extremists are the people being consulted on setting policy now.

Thanks so much for the links, PencilsInSpace. Hoping to see you in London next month.

Limekiwi in this case it’s the extremists who are driving the bus. It’s the extremists who are pushing their agenda regardless of what other more moderate transpeople want and, in effect, have had for a good while - being able to quietly and peaceably go about their business - until the TRAs took over.

See, it’s not all transwomen any more than it’s ever been all men, just enough transwomen and just enough men posing a threat and there being no way to tell which they are so that it’s necessary to exclude all of them from women’s spaces.

posing a threat and there being no way to tell which they are so that it’s necessary to exclude all of them from women’s spaces

You can't just exclude an entire group of people for the actions of a few extremists though.
How would that sentence go down in any other context that wasn't transpeople?

You can't just exclude an entire group of people for the actions of a few extremists though

This is exactly what happens with sex based segregation. We exclude all men because a few are violent and/or abusive.

You can exclude all men from girls’ changing rooms because of the actions of a few rapists. This is the foundation of safeguarding.

Xpost because it’s so bleeding obvious !

I don't think it will be a test case. Mumsnet had similar 15 or so years ago when SWMNBN took MNhQ to court. I believe they had to reveal the identity of the poster who made specific comments about rockets.

If an organised vociferous minority of any kind lobby, the disagreeing majority who sit at home are ignored. Things get pushed through because of the inertia of the majority. Let`s be honest how many do not even turn out to vote in a general election.

I remember that, NicoandTheNiners

You can't just exclude an entire group of people for the actions of a few extremists though.
How would that sentence go down in any other context that wasn't transpeople?

No one is being excluded though. Transwomen have the same rights as everyone else. They have access to toilets, changing rooms, counselling services. They are just being asked to use those facilities in a manner which doesn't cause other users distress - which means using gender neutral facilities or those of their biological sex.

Unfortunately the actions of a few extremists do impact many, and therefore additional safeguarding measures are taken that apply to all because of those few.

Have me deleted again, by all means, but I’m still laughing. The inability to deal with either the question or the discomfort with answering the question is, well... kind of pathetic, but funny to witness.

I don't know huge amounts about the Karen White case but I think a big problem with this case wasn't so much about Karen White identifying as a woman, more that an assessment meeting that would have taken into account previous offending history didn't take place. This should have been done by a trans gender case board and if it had taken place, White may not have been placed in a women's prison.

The fact that White had previously raped women obviously means being placed in a women's prison wasn't suitable. Whether this means all trans women, who commit say burglary, shouldn't be placed in a women's prison, I don't know. Discussion is needed by people who are more expert than me.

In cases like the Karen White case, I really couldn't give a shit what a paedophile and rapist wants to identify as....scum is scum.

When I say I class trans women as women, I mean the vast majority who are just living their life. I don't care what toilets they use, what changing rooms they use, I don't see them as a threat, im sure they are not. If you do, then continue to speak out as I do on things I think are not right.

I think you use Karen White and other similar examples because you realise that to be so extreme about a 25 year old law abiding trans woman, who maybe has a partner, supportive parents, a job, who does her shopping at Tesco and want to go swimming using the women's changing room at the local swimming pool quietly... would be pretty awful and unnecessary. That's why we end up talking about Karen White.

I'm glad as a woman I'm not judged based on women who have committed terrible offences.

Sleeping sloth - your quiet transwoman probably hasn't had surgery though, and plenty females in that changing room may well be somewhat distressed when confronted, quietly or not, by her meat and two veg. Why is her desire to use the women's changing rooms more important?

Sorry hit post before finishing. If I were to say how racist MN had become because of a minority of racist posters that would be unfair on the vast majority of posters here who aren’t racist

There's not thread after thread of race related posts though, so not quite the same.

That is one of the most staggeringly obtuse things I have ever read. Karen white, as I understand it, was assessed in line with current procedure. The problem is that a procedure for moving male bodied people to institutions full of vulnerable women who cannot even remove themselves shouldn’t exist and wouldn’t if female safety was prioritised over the wants of men.
I can’t believe the lengths people are prepared to go to to dodge the obvious. Much more important to them than protecting vulnerable women, clearly.

No one is being excluded though

My comment was referring to the one above that literally said exclude all.

This bit
so that it’s necessary to exclude all of them from women’s spaces

I think you use Karen White and other similar examples because you realise that to be so extreme about a 25 year old law abiding trans woman, who maybe has a partner, supportive parents, a job, who does her shopping at Tesco and want to go swimming using the women's changing room at the local swimming pool quietly... would be pretty awful and unnecessary. That's why we end up talking about Karen White.

Well said, and I agree with this bit too

I'm glad as a woman I'm not judged based on women who have committed terrible offences.
Same!