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Original poster

Anon. members - Forums open to court action??

757 replies

justasking111 · 10/04/2019 13:47

Was quite shocked to see this. Will this be a test case? Mumsnet is such a tame well run site compared to the comments I see in the online press. Is the writing on the wall for free (cough) speech or is it a culling of trolling. Personally I think that something needs to be done, some folk have no filter or are just plain nasty.

news.yahoo.com/transgender-activist-wins-court-ruling-forcing-parenting-website-reveal-identity-alleged-online-abuser-121317596.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
TalkinPaece · 16/04/2019 20:49

Japab
Are you say ing that those who can produce sperm are men and those who cannot are not?

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 16/04/2019 21:17

JAPAB

So what you are saying is that a male can waft around saying 'I'm a laaaady' Emily Howard style and that is absolutely fine. But I can also say 'no you ain't mate, now off to the men's you go'. And that is fine too?

Great, we are on the same page!

sackrifice · 16/04/2019 21:28

If you just want to use traditional terminology then don't ask people on the other side of the fence for how they would distinguish out certain subsets of humanity.

'If you want to use traditional terminology, don't ask those of us that are using non-traditional terminology what the fuck we are talking about, as we are trying to gaslight you' - you mean.

Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 22:00

No-one thinks they can

Yes, they really do. You appear not to have kept up with the ridiculous theories which encompass extremist trans ideology.

The point is, Jabbers dear, that there are only two gametes. Sperm and ova. The reproductive class female does not admit males. Except some TRAs think that it does. They don't differentiate between sex and "gender". They actually think they are biologically female, and it's just an unfortunate accident that they have a dick. Because they say so.

Do you agree?

SmileEachDay · 16/04/2019 22:20

I had a transvaginal ultrasound today. Had a good look at my ovaries and uterus.

Saw where my DC grew before I pushed them out. And where there are mysterious lumps and bumps which need dealing with, potentially.

But yeah. Female biology means nothing.

Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 22:23

Hope all is ok, Smile Flowers

SmileEachDay · 16/04/2019 22:25

Thanks Eresh :)

AllTheFunAndGames · 16/04/2019 22:51

Have MNHQ given a response?

PencilsInSpace · 16/04/2019 23:07

MNHQ don't need to give a response. The court order required them to pass on the poster's details, which they did. That's all.

PencilsInSpace · 16/04/2019 23:55

I don't see calling BME men and white men "men" as being the same thing as eliminating all differences between them.

I don't see calling BME men and white men "men" as being the same thing at all as calling tw and women 'women'.

There's been a longish thread running on FWR over the past few days about the argument 'transwomen are women, just like black women are women' and how incredibly racist that is. Black women on that thread have described how there is a horrible racist stereotype of black women as masculine - not proper women.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3556691-a-subset-of-women

If 'transwomen are women, just like black women are women' and transwomen are not women (clearly!) then black women must not be women either. 'Transwomen are women, just like black women are women' is nasty racist BS.

Your example is no better.

For huge shameful chunks of recent history, black men haven't been 'men', have they? They've been 'boy'.

When Thomas Jefferson said, We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness ... he didn't mean the black ones, did he? He meant 'Men'.

Do you think transmen are men just like black men are men?

JAPAB · 17/04/2019 01:04

PencilsInSpace, you've lost me a bit. The point that BME mem amd white men are all men, was simply to demonstrate that calling a whole bunch of people men is not the same as denying that different subsets will have experienced different oppressions etc etc, may in some contexts need different considerations etc etc. The spin required to make that a racist point is eluding me I'm afraid.

Ereshkigal , "Yes, they really do. You appear not to have kept up with the ridiculous theories which encompass extremist trans ideology."

Who are the people who think you can change chromosome or which gametes you produce? That you can switch between one of these classes to another?

I am sure you can find people who use terms like male and female to denote their gender identity, and talk about switching between them, using these terms, but that is not the same thing.

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 01:10

I am sure you can find people who use terms like male and female to denote their gender identity, and talk about switching between them, using these terms, but that is not the same thing.

No, they think they are biologically female the same way I am. When they are male. You really don't get it, do you?

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 01:11

PencilsInSpace, you've lost me a bit.

Behold my amazement.

JAPAB · 17/04/2019 01:17

"So what you are saying is that a male can waft around saying 'I'm a laaaady' Emily Howard style and that is absolutely fine."

And they say there is no transphobia on Mumsnet. How about the casual disrespect of trans people.

"But I can also say 'no you ain't mate, now off to the men's you go'. And that is fine too?"

Like I said, you would have to consider things on a case-by-case basis. On the subject of bathroom segregation maybe the split should be on gender, maybe on chromosome, maybe on the prescence of a penis. If there are good arguments for the latter two and the law concurs, then yes you could redirect individual trans women.

But in the latter two cases the rooms would not be called "mens" and "womens". So no, in your redirecting you would not tell them to go to the men's as there would be no room for men per se. You would send them off to the penis room to join the men and women who have penises. Or the XY room to join the men and women with an XY. However the split legally goes.

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 01:20

Happy to send them off to the penis room given how very very few have genital surgery. Glad that's an option. Thanks JAPAB, I knew you had it in you!

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 01:24

And they say there is no transphobia on Mumsnet. How about the casual disrespect of trans people.

All she mentioned was a man doing an "Emily Howard" impression. Not sure why you thought she necessarily meant a trans person? And under self ID any male can declare their womanhood any way they choose. It's all valid.

Do you have criteria? Interesting.

JAPAB · 17/04/2019 01:25

"Behold my amazement."

So you agree then. It is racist to suggest that calling BME men and white men as all men, is racist.

Or maybe the racism is not in calling them all men, but in not seeing that to do this denies the different oppressions and prejudices faced by each?

It is far too late for this spin unravelling.

"No, they think they are biologically female the same way I am. When they are male. You really don't get it, do you?"

I get that you attach a certain meaning to "biologically female" that they do not. Then using that to prove that they think they have an XX and produce ova. Or can convert into this. Because after all that is what YOU mean by that term.

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 01:27

I get that you attach a certain meaning to "biologically female" that they do not.

What do you think that meaning might be, and how would it differ from theirs?

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 01:28

So you agree then. It is racist to suggest that calling BME men and white men as all men, is racist.

Did I say that? Don't think I did. I merely expressed my utter and total amazement that you were a bit lost in understanding someone's argument.

Smotheroffive · 17/04/2019 02:40

Or the XY room to join the men and women with an XY uh?

°I get that you attach a certain meaning to "biologically female" that they do not^

What other meaning is there than its actual meaning in science? It's a biological scientific term for women.

There's no 'certain meaning'.

Are we re-wtitingtyw whole dictionary, of just calling things whatever we want and pretending the actuals definitions are erased now. Can we play this game with all words?

Language is going to become such an obstacle to communication. Oh! hang on!
That's what's going on already.

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 03:04

Cat
NOUN /kæt/

  1. Felis Catus
  2. A "dog" (see definition) that uses a flap in the door.
  3. A "rabbit" (see definition) that uses a litter tray.
SmileEachDay · 17/04/2019 08:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 17/04/2019 08:37

And they say there is no transphobia on Mumsnet. How about the casual disrespect of trans people.

But I wasn't talking necessarily about trans people, I was talking about a man self identifying as an Emily Howard style character. And I thought you were all for men self identifying however they want?

And anyway, how come what I wrote is so offensive and 'disrespectful' but males telling women that being a woman is about gold lame handbags and blush pink scarves is progressive and women who object to this are bigots?

Isn't that what is known as a 'double standard'?

sackrifice · 17/04/2019 08:48

People coming on here telling us we must believe the opposite of generally known terms, to our detriment, putting other women and girls in potential danger versus 'casual disrespect'...where is the respect for women and girls and their safety and dignity?

GirlDownUnder · 17/04/2019 08:51

JAPAB I'm a trans woman