"Why on earth did you have child(ren) with this man"

[Februaryblooms]

AIBU to think it's a pointless and goady thing to say to somebody who already has children or is expecting one to somebody who (obviously) is a bit of a shit?

I see it so often on MN on here and the relationship threads.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in all of the cases where people have said that to the (usually upset) OP its too late to do anything about it and she's clearly already aware of her poor judgement so it just looks like rubbing salt in the wounds to me.

Thoughts?

I think it’s a fair question especially if the op has multiple children and is pregnant yet again. If the op answers the question then posters replying have the full picture which is relevant.

I see what you mean OP and I've never said it, and I never think about it where there is clearly abuse going on as I know it is not likely their own 'decision' to have children anyway.

But sometimes I do think it. Normally on threads like 'my husband has always been lazy around the house, goes out with his mates a couple of times a week, spends all weekends on his hobby, and I'm pregnant with our third or fourth and so fed up of it all, how can I get him to change'. There are woman who are bored of their life being a SAHP, who are thinking about leaving, who (on the face of it) aren't being abused, and it sounds like having another child will make it all a million times worse so I do wonder why.

Even in the cases where the man has been shit pre-children and it's obvious that it's not an ideal set up, it's still pointless to say "Why on earth did you have children with this man" when she's already pregnant or has had the children.

I don't agree that it's pointless. It makes her think about her part in this and may prevent another pregnancy, accidental or planned.

They really need to get deep down and figure out why they have chosen to be tied to this man.

There was a thread where the posters DH/DP had been blackmailing her sister for nude pictures and stalking her online.

He'd cheated earlier in the relationship and was never great by all accounts...unfortunately she didn't know about the blackmailing until she was pregnant, but now she's in the situation where this horrible man will be in her life for good, even though she's left him..because he has a right to see his child.

Courtship is the time to assess suitability for a long term or life partner. It's the probationary period of a relationship, yet despite failing miserably...having a baby is like giving the poor performing employee a promotion.

I actually say this to managers at work.. you confirmed X in their probation, even though they were crap (I put it more eloquently of course) and now you want to get rid of them and it's a lot more difficult once their past that period.

I may get the "we are where we are Sandy", ...fine...but I still remind them it could happen again, so they need to think why they didnt take the necessary steps in time, when the issues came to light and how much more time/money will cost now.

I've never post it but I have often thought it, when posters are describing an utterly shit human being who has been grim and useless throughout their relationship and yet they have kept on having children with the useless fucker. Why? Why??

No I dont think its pointless, it's making her take accountability for her role in the mess

Yes because everyone needs to know it’s their own fault when they’re at their lowest ebb and begging for support. I know people who think like this is real life and I really despise them and so do most other people.

I think if the comment is genuinely made with the best of intentions (which im dubious about most of the time) then there are better ways of getting the point across and provoking introspection.

For example, if somebody is on their second or third child with somebody who's totally useless or even worse abusive then surely it's more constructive to recommend they seek counselling, therapy or do the freedom program where they can delve into their issues properly without judgement - as opposed to asking "Why on earth have you had children with this person" during a time of emotional distress in which they've reached out for a kind word or to know they're not alone.

(I know these things are often recommended to posters by the way, just not always in the situations were talking about here)

If somebodies life choices irritate you to the point of wanting to tell them as much, I just think it's better to say nothing at all, roll your eyes and move along if you don't want to provide support and a listening ear which nobody is obliged to do.

I get why people would feel irritation on behalf of the children who pay a price for their mothers choices and lack of judgement, I truly do, but sticking the boot in when the woman cries out for help and support just seems spiteful and pointless.

When I was in an abusive relationship years ago no amount of pointing out how much of a mug I was would have made me leave any quicker.

I don't post it but I often want to, out of sheer frustration. So many examples here of terrible choices to procreate against all reason. And the contraceptive failure rate of MN users is apparently orders of magnitude greater than in the general population.

Lots of times there isn't 'begging for support' but wanting to know how to make the man not be a cunt so they can keep on sprogging with him. Sadly a lot of it is just wanting to have kids by one dad, not wanting to be on their own/work FT/support child on one's own, too old to find someone else or a different dad for another child, feeling like a relationship isn't a relationship unless you have a child together, etc.

Agree Op, its vile and unhelpful.
It's also interesting how many people on here think accidental pregnancies are caused by females desperate to get pregnant when actually many abusers deliberately get women pregnant as another way to control them. Its far harder to leave someone once you are pregnant and even if you do its likely they'll get shared care of the children.

Yes because everyone needs to know it’s their own fault when they’re at their lowest ebb and begging for support.

If they think it's all the fault of someone else then how will they ever get out of the situation or dump the man? I've seen countless threads on here about a mum with 3 kids complaining about their father not doing anything, sits around playing video games, asks how she can change him or rants about how tired she is. If nobody tells her why did you put yourself in this situation choosing to have more than one child with him, you need to take some responsibility and leave, then how will she ever do anything? Saying oh it's all right poor love, he's a bastard does nothing. Absolutely nothing.

But if they don't take responsibility nothing ever changes. Owning up to your mistakes is what we encourage children to do and to learn from them. As an adult, surely it's even more relevant it happens as it's one thing to make poor life choices for yourself but quite another to make them for an innocent chid.

It’s not about fault or blame but recognising the issues. It also helps posters replying.

Saying that women who have had bad childhood experiences of relationships and are maybe less able to make healthy choices is very true.
Why did they have bad childhood experiences though?
Probably because their parents relationship was unhealthy...
And so it goes on unless someone breaks the cycle.

The question is asked in hindsight though, the conception has already been and gone.

"I advise against having any more children with this man" is understandable if the OP were considering it.

Who's to say that the poster hasn't already decided she would never even consider having more children with the man in question though? It's not always the case that the women this is said to has two or three children under her belt with the piss poor dad in question. Sometimes the people who receive these unhelpful comments would rather shit in their hands and clap than have another child to the same man.

Women who have had one child with the bloke then kicked his backside to the curb have had this said to them on here too, I've seen it.

Maybe the better thing to say to women is it's ok to be judgemental when it comes to who to settle down and start a family with. I think we are sometimes encouraged to be kind, to not be snobs, to be understanding and sadly it can lead to shit decisions.

I think there are threads where the question is asked in a very goady way, and it is pointless, as the OP obviously can't turn the clock back. Especially in cases where she clearly regrets her actions.

I can identify with the frustration, though. My adopted DDs (now 10 and 7) have a birth mum who keeps getting pregnant. I remember how I felt when I first heard the news that she was pregnant again, with a younger sibling did my DDs, a DS who is now with another family. There is also an older half sister with another family. (And Tragically 2 other pregnancies which resulted in still births.) She and the birth dad are in a toxic relationship which they have never been able to walk away from.

I feel a lot of sympathy for her, as she grew up in care and has never been able to get her act together, but we're the ones who have to pick up the pieces and eventually we'll have to explain it to our DDs.

It's possible to have sympathy but to also feel frustrated at the bad decisions some people make and then repeat over and over again.

There are a depressing number of women who seem to think that the birth of a baby will change a man, making him a dedicated partner and father even if he has been clear about not wanting children. No. If he wasn't before, he won't be after and you are giving the child a poor father deliberately. That's not fair on anyone caught up in the situation, but especially not the child.

I agree OP, you read it so frequently on here and I wonder why? It galls me when I see other posters (some of whom I know IRL) imparting judgemental bollocks on here when they themselves have done exactly as the OP has done over and over. I read a thread where an OP was lambasted for having a child with an abusive ex and the way she was villified was shocking to me. Those dispensing with their unhelpful and nasty vitriol have done much worse in their lives and have actually put their children in greater risk. The irony of it all is clearly lost on them.

Some abuse is so acute that you can actually be brainwashed into thinking having a child with your monster husband is a great idea and they convince you they will change and be a great dad. In some circumstances (albeit limited admittedly) I’ve known couples whose relationship pre-children was stormy to say the least but when the baby came along things improved and they learnt to work together and find happiness.

I know it’s not helpful, but I can’t help think a child is a massive commitment why don’t women set the bars but higher for themselves when making the biggest commitment ever?

I’ve been there, blinded by love, I bought a house with him and got engaged but I realised before marriage and kids... But if I’d have rushed into it before I saw the light...

When people rush into having kids together no thoughtfor the consequences or moan about him smoking weed after they have a child when he’s always done it, I don’t know what they expect? I know being with someone for years is no guarantee but you are more likely to know someone better.

It’s not just women I think this of though. I remember a man I used to work with saying on his wedding day he remembers thinking she was a nutter and he thought about jilting, the first words out of my mouth were did you already have the kids then?if he thought that about marrying her why on Earth did he get her pregnant twice!

I made bad choices because I was brought up being told I wasn't good enough and no one would ever want me because of "how I am" so I latched onto men who were kind to me even though they were totally unsuitable. I didn't have healthy relationships modelled to me so accepted far less than ideal abusive as "you have to work at relationships. You're difficult/awkward/he must be a saint to put up with you/I don't know how he puts up with you/I'm not surprised he gets annoyed with you etc."

So I married an abusive bastard and had two children with him. I didn't know that things weren't supposed to be so hard. I didn't know that love doesn't actually mean being bloody miserable and afraid and thinking you're a shit mum. PND didn't help. That just made me "a psycho bitch who'd never get the kids if I left."

I then went on to a long distance relationship with another totally unsuitable man and got pregnant. I ended the relationship before I even found out. At least by then I'd developed some boundaries and wasn't going to be treated like shit by him.
Until the next one charmed his way into my knickers.

Kindness. Got me every time. But no more. I've done a lot of work on myself and my boundaries. After my marriage ended when he waltzed off with ow, I've slowly built my boundaries up from barely above ground level to a 12ft wall with razor-barb on top 😂

Kindness no longer makes my heart flutter nor gets my hormones acting up.

Please try to remember when you are rolling your eyes at women that some of us are not brought up with boundaries or any knowledge of what a healthy relationship looks like so we fuck it up time and time again. Hopefully we all learn but done aren't fortunate enough to have the strength to build those boundaries and slip back into old patterns.

My break is currently going through a separation. It's easy for me to see now where she's going wrong because I did the same things. Argued to same things "but he's a great dad he's not; he's got lots of good points he hasn't; I'm not easy to live with maybe but he's abusive" Hindsight is always great but none are so blind as those who are in the thick of it all.

Guidance and signposting might help these women break free, rather than judgement.

Who's to say that the poster hasn't already decided she would never even consider having more children with the man in question though?

Well if a woman says her husband has been shit since the first child, yet says she has three children, why wouldn't we assume that she would consider having a fourth? Seeing how shit he was with the first child didn't stop her from having two and three, so why wouldn't she consider having number four

I’m with you, OP, and some of the sanctimonious, self righteous posts on this thread are making me feel a bit queasy.

Well, just as a, 'heads up' you could stop reading.

Just sayin'

Perhaps the sanctimonious self righteous posters could stop reading the threads where women have had children with twats. Just saying.

There are a depressing number of women who seem to think that the birth of a baby will change a man, making him a dedicated partner and father even if he has been clear about not wanting children. No. If he wasn't before, he won't be after and you are giving the child a poor father deliberately. That's not fair on anyone caught up in the situation, but especially not the child.

As long as THEY get the baby THEY wanted, that's all that matters to THEM. Nobody else wanted them so they had a baby. Some women's emotions never mature beyond those of a fifteen year old girl.

I grew up in a deeply disfunctional family and surprise, surprise my first serious relationship was hugely disfunctional too (borderline alcoholic manchild who cheated on me and liked to be waited on hand and foot). A friend asking me what I was doing with such a fuckwit provided a bit of an epiphany for me. Esp when 2 friends of his agreed with her.