"Why on earth did you have child(ren) with this man"

[Februaryblooms]

AIBU to think it's a pointless and goady thing to say to somebody who already has children or is expecting one to somebody who (obviously) is a bit of a shit?

I see it so often on MN on here and the relationship threads.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in all of the cases where people have said that to the (usually upset) OP its too late to do anything about it and she's clearly already aware of her poor judgement so it just looks like rubbing salt in the wounds to me.

Thoughts?

I dunno. One of the most depressing things mumsnet has taught me is that there are plenty of women out there who take more care choosing a handbag than a father for their children. And it's not always about hindsight, quite often the writing is on the wall in letters 10' high. If he's a useless bell end with kids 1 and 2, chances are he's not going to turn into superdad for child #3. And yet they keep trying.

would've, I'm.

Bloomin' autocorrect!

It does know good to say this but I do wonder if more needs to be done to teach girls the warning signs of shit men and reiterate the consequences of having a baby with the wrong man. Won't be a magic bullet but might help.

Yes absolutely

It's so easy to miss red flags. Its frustrating to look back once you're out of it and realise there were many, but not so easy to see them for what they are when you're in the midst of it.

Fortunately most of us are fine tuned to look out for said flags after we've come out the other side of an abusive relationship but it is the case for a high number of women that we just can't see the wood for the trees in the early years when the abuser/cheat/pillock is putting on his best face.

Agree its generally unhelpful however answering it might prove helpful.

Because I thought I could change him - op probably has a type and a history of dating idiots who she thinks she can fix. She can't. Insight is priceless for the futire

Because he has only been like this since X date - so what's changed? reassurance to op that she couldn't have known this would happen

Also for the former example in partic, perhaps there's a hope the question will make them THINK about having subsequent planned pregnancies with him.

There's a Mum at DS's school, three kids in about 4 years with a total waster. Perhaps if she'd had pause for thought earlier on (he's always been an idiot) and realised this actually isn't how most men are so she shouldn't just put up with it, she'd have not had the others, or not with him at least

There's also a lot of accidental pregnancies and contraceptive failures resulting in pregnancies that will be continuing on MN, too.

People don’t understand that a) a lot of abuse begins when the woman is pregnant and b) abusive men often force multiple pregnancies on their partners to keep them tied to them and vulnerable.
It’s not as simple as just don’t have a baby with him. No woman in a good place thinks ‘great let’s have a baby with a complete arsehole’.

YABU

I see nothing wrong with questioning why a woman chose to have a baby with a man who has been abusive for years and not only have they had 1 child, they have 2, 3 or more.

I read threads where such posters have been with these abusive men...post about and a year or so later. ..another pregnancy by the serial cheating abuser.

There comes a point you need to take responsibility and look inwards to understand why you are in this situation.

I get frustrated that the child has one abusive parent and another who saw the signs and experienced the abuse, but still chose to create a life with the man.

Empathy is one thing, but mollycoddling and virtual flowers aren't helpful.

People don't like to accept that abuse begins or escalates during pregnancy.

This.

Some posters have to expect some judgment as their lives are so messy.

What kind of crappy attitude is that?!

Being abused by some twunt would make your life messy, that wouldn't make it your own fault or deserving of "judgement".

more needs to be done to teach girls the warning signs of shit men
Yes! Unfortunately though a lot of what the media tells us is ‘romantic’ are massive red flags in relationships. E.g. very early declarations of love, grand gestures, saying they’ll die without you, jealousy because you’re so beautiful they want to protect you, obsessiveness, not taking no for an answer.
We need much more talk about what a healthy relationship looks like for boys and girls.

I also imagine that young women who have had difficult upbringings themselves must be more vulnerable to this.

@habibihabibi yes, me too, but that's because I'm well off. Most people aren't.

It's not just about abuse though is it? It's when he has 3 kids he never sees (because his ex is a psycho bitch) and you've only known him for 4 months but you're ttc cause he's "the one". Or when he's a selfish prick who expects you to pay for half of everything despite earning 4 times more and who doesn't want to get married because it's "just a bit of paper". Or when you both work full time but he doesn't lift a finger round the house but spends hours on the Xbox or goes out with his mates.

I agree SnuggyBuggy

If a young woman had terrible parental provisions or abusive parents / lack of parenting and love growing up then she's likely going to lack the insight that somebody with a typically normal upbringing would have, and that isn't her fault.

She would hopefully grow and mature through experience and learn the life lessons nessecary to have self respect and be secure in herself so as not to become enmeshed with undesirable men, but if her upbringing was piss poor and she was raised seeing her mother make similar mistakes then surely she can be excused for not always getting it right, at least once.

Of course that isn't always the way it goes for people from difficult backgrounds and many build themselves into somebody resilient and unfuckwithable (I know that's not a word) from the get go, but it's not always the case.

quite often the writing is on the wall in letters 10' high. If he's a useless bell end with kids 1 and 2, chances are he's not going to turn into superdad for child #3. And yet they keep trying

Totally agree with this.

but it is the case for a high number of women that we just can't see the wood for the trees in the early years when the abuser/cheat/pillock is putting on his best face

Everyone puts on their best face in the early days...not just men.

The case of Mr. Nice changing is different. A lot have been wasters well before a child was ever conceived.

Sometimes women are so desperate for a relationship, they put up with crap. Especially when they approach late 30s...bio clock ticking... and they know he's as useful as a chocolate teapot...but they're running out of time...having spent the last 8 years with the fool.

So in spite of it, they get pregnant and suprise suprise...he continues being the waste of space he always has been. Only now they're tied to the fool for life.

I honestly don't think enough thought goes into choosing the father of their child for many of these women.

As a pp said upthread...more thought goes into buying a handbag or wedding outfit.. and that's as a guest, not as the bride.

People say it because they lack both empathy and life experience. Much like teenagers, this causes them to say and think thoughtlessly cruel things.

The thing is, lots of women have really low esteem, are vulnerable and are desperate for love and affection. Any love and affection. And along comes Mr knobhead being a bit kind, showing a bit of interest. ...making them feel wanted.

You're right, but sometimes op mentions cheating/red flags that happened before kids and it's very frustrating and posters can't help but express it.

...and it's very frustrating and posters can't help but express it.

They should try harder then. How does it do anything but make the person posting it feel good? The OP can't go back and change things or send her children back.

Yabu sometimes the woman is so desperate for a child she will put up with anything. No sympathy there.
Also having 4/5 children when you admit that he was useless from the first child makes you as bad for bringing more kids into this mess.

Perhaps we should be shifting the focus onto why there are so very many abusive/ useless men out there, hey?

I think it's because people keep breeding with them crack.

Oh, yes, has kids with a man who's already got 2+ that he never sees and he's definitely going to be great father material! Oh a man with known MH issues who tells you he never wants kids. Or a man who, before you TTC'd did FA in the home and can't even get up in the morning and now is shockingly unchanged since you're pregnant/have kids. Duh!!!

@barbarianmum

It's when he has 3 kids he never sees (because his ex is a psycho bitch) and you've only known him for 4 months but you're ttc cause he's "the one"

This and the rest of your post are spot on.

Women are often too quick to believe he's a victim and doesn't see all his other kids because all the Ex's are evil.

There are far too many late night gamers and functioning alcoholics, who are crap with money, leave their clothes on the floor, expect you to cook all the time..and yet somehow them not changing to be a stand up decent man when.a child comes along seems a mystery.

It was as predictable as the 25th of December. The best predictor of future behaviour, is the past. It's not rocket science.

For those who had a partner that was good and only changed during pregnancy... I can understand...but this isn't the case for many.

This is a very misogynistic thread.