"Why on earth did you have child(ren) with this man"

[Februaryblooms]

AIBU to think it's a pointless and goady thing to say to somebody who already has children or is expecting one to somebody who (obviously) is a bit of a shit?

I see it so often on MN on here and the relationship threads.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in all of the cases where people have said that to the (usually upset) OP its too late to do anything about it and she's clearly already aware of her poor judgement so it just looks like rubbing salt in the wounds to me.

Thoughts?

I had lived with oh for 4 and a half years and he was the one who said he wanted us to have a child. I told him I had no experience with kids, I've never babysat and that he would need to be an active dad as I would probably be useless. He said he used to babysit every weekend for his mum's friend and was confident he would be fine. Every time he came into contact with a baby, he would always be the first to hold the child (id pass)

Our baby came and he literally had no interest at all. His family were shocked and still can't really believe the change. He is better with ds now but ds doesn't actively go to him (he's almost 3). I would never have another with him.

sometimes appears that certain women spend more time choosing their holiday destination than a suitable father for their children

This ^^

Yes some change in pregnancy but the bulk don't. Many just want a child and don't really care who the father is in reality. They don't want to work, they think it makes a man stay, they believe it's not a relationship until they have a child etc. With obviously the number of "accidental" pregnancies men don't appear to be getting the message re contraception and the chidren pay the price.

It's not helpful.

The image women are sold of perfect manhood includes a lot of things only now beginning to be widely accepted as red flags. Healthy relationships are only just now beginning to be taught in some schools.

For many of us, it takes having children for it to dawn on us that these behaviours are not ok - because at that point we're not just responsible for our own safety and wellbeing anymore. Sadly by that point we're often financially dependent on and/or married to the fucker.

Cheers patriarchy.

You see it right now, threads moaning that their DP is a lazy fucker, does shit all around the house, smokes weed, goes out drinking and comes home and pisses in the wardrobe, is a completely selfish bastard... and then the immortal words “we’re currently TTC”.

Yep! I guess the biological urge to procreate is so strong in some people that any ol' shit will do.

But people who choose to not to have children don't know what they are missing, don't know what love means, will be lonely in their old age etc etc etc. Repeat ad nauseum.

Why is it considered to be more acceptable to have kids and give them a shit life (then expect sympathy for same when the children are adults) than to see it coming from a mile away and not have children at all ?

Even in the cases where the man has been shit pre-children and it's obvious that it's not an ideal set up, it's still pointless to say "Why on earth did you have children with this man" when she's already pregnant or has had the children.

I'm on board with discouraging women to make poor choices before conception of course, but after the fact just seems pointless and goady.

Discouraging women from making poor choices that was supposed to say.

No I dont think its pointless, it's making her take accountability for her role in the mess.
What is pointless is feeding her complaints with sympathy while she knows shes going to stay with him.

What's the point of 'there, there yes hes every name under the sun', but making a choice to stay with him.

I think it's a valid question when they are on the second or third child with an abusive or generally shit man. If they're willing to have multiple children when they know they're a shit I do get a bit confused

Perhaps we should be shifting the focus onto why there are so very many abusive/ useless men out there, hey?

No.

We can shift the focus to why drugdealers exist...but those taking drugs are responsible for their actions.

People treat you how you let them in life.

If women didn't stay with abusers, those men would be single, be forced to have ONS or be forced to change if they want a relationship with a woman.

I fully accept and understand some women have low self esteem, but choosing to have DC with such men creates a degree of doubt over their ability to make good choices as a parent....because no matter how you spin it, your child now has an abusive father....a situation that you could have prevented.

This is where the cycle can end up repeating...be ause your child is in an unhealthy environment and is more likely to make poor relationship choices too.

I would like to see a day when the national curriculum includes teaching girls and boys about abusive relationships. The signs to look out for and perhaps showing them some hard hitting stories of how it escalates.

My DC are 16+ and due to my knowledge in this area, I've told them what isn't acceptable in terms of control, manipulation etc.

I actually share some of the posts on MN, where women are being controlled and abused ... I show them how very often lack of financial independence had left them trapped and this is why they need to study, have a career of their own, not become a lifelong SAHM and never depend on a man for money on any kind of a prolonged basis.... that's besides being on mat leave for me.

Many just want a child and don't really care who the father is in reality. They don't want to work, they think it makes a man stay, they believe it's not a relationship until they have a child etc. With obviously the number of "accidental" pregnancies men don't appear to be getting the message re contraception and the chidren pay the price.

This^

But they really love children, not like those empty hearted selfish (lets face it, usually) women who don't have children.

But why is it ok to kick somebody whilst they're down?

If somebody is in emotional distress reaching out for some support from a community of mostly other women, are those appropriate circumstances to tell her she's stupid or imply as much with the quote from this OP.

If a woman has issues that stem so deeply to the point where she repeatedly makes bad choices RE men then I don't think one or two harsh comments from strangers online are going to be the catalyst for change.

If I saw somebody making the same mistakes again and again (as I have recently IRL with a young woman I know) i'd be more inclined to say something supportive or say nothing at all.

I’m with you, OP, and some of the sanctimonious, self righteous posts on this thread are making me feel a bit queasy.

I have used this expression, like others on Mumsnet I do get exasperated with women who clearly have useless partners but go on to have 2, 3 more children with a man who has already proved himself to be a useless parent. Why? .

It might be too late for this particular woman but perhaps it will help other women to be careful about who they choose to have a child with, or even who they choose to have sex with .... so many women on Mumsnet seem to get pregnant accidentally .

X1000 SandyY2K post

A woman is just as responsible for her part in it. Not referring to genuine cases of abuse.
And why do so many women place themselves in such a position of fully dependent on the man. Another choice made.

I know what you mean but any woman who is not independently wealthy becoming dependent on a man - no matter how much of a 'good man' or whatever always makes me wince.

But yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I’m with you, OP, and some of the sanctimonious, self righteous posts on this thread are making me feel a bit queasy.

Well, just as a, 'heads up' you could stop reading.

Just sayin'

Ita not kicking someone when they are down though. Maybe sometimes but not always

I had 2 kids with an abusive man. Who was abusive from the beginning. It wasnt my first child, was about 4, that I saw how awful he was. I stayed because my self esteem hit the floor. We had another child because he wanted one. I had got used do only what he wanted.

Recognising how I ended up in that relationship and didnt recognise the signs, helped me. It helped me when I left, it helped me not get with another abusive man.

Acknowledging why I stayed, helped me form a plan to move past it.

When a poster answers this question honestly, it shows alot about then and their thought processes. Which may help give them advice.

I always wonder what answer people who ask this question actually want. Do you want the OP to shame faced explain themselves to you? To confess it was an accident? It’s a question that serves no purpose to a distressed OP seeking support. Fine to say “for goodness sake don’t have anymore children with him” not fine to try and shame women who are already feeling like total shit. Smug, emotionally unintelligent people who look down on others tend to ask this question. I would hate to be that kind of person.

If a woman has issues that stem so deeply to the point where she repeatedly makes bad choices RE men then I don't think one or two harsh comments from strangers online are going to be the catalyst for change.

I think in this situation most posters who use the phrase are frustrated because children are suffering because of both parents' actions; and tbh I don't think most posters feel inclined to offer kind words and support and act like the woman has no responsibility to protect her children because the woman has repeatedly made choices that are going to affect the children negatively.

I think a lot of parents on here get angry when they see a situation where both the mother and father are failing to protect their children from harm, and keep getting pregnant then complain about the consequences. I'm not trying to victim blame but I think posters feel more sympathy for the children who have no choice but to spend their childhood in an abusive household.

Sometimes harsh comments are a needed dose of reality.

Its not always even a second or third child, the number that have a child with a man they have barely dated let alone got to know to the point of a stable long term relationship is astounding..

Agree/. It's a horrible, nasty and unhelpful thing to say!

A woman is just as responsible for her part in it. Not referring to genuine cases of abuse.
And why do so many women place themselves in such a position of fully dependent on the man. Another choice made.

A lot of posters on MN are very ignorant around the dynamics of domestic abuse. I don’t think they post like this purposely to undermine a potentially vulnerable person in a situation they just have no real understanding of because, well, who would?

I get it a lot thanks to ex because I was daft enough o have two children with him. I just reiterate that unless you were living in my relationship at that point there is no possible way you could understand and that my children are my greatest joy and blessing after a bleak few years

YANBU. Whenever I read it, I feel like smashing my slapping hand through the screen!

I think sometimes it is a genuine question when it’s obvious the relationship has never been good , and some of the comments on here about self esteem etc are interesting . Having had a friend who was married to a bully and when she left said the relationship had been bad since day one , I always wondered why she had four children with him but I never dared to ask . Perhaps she knew he would never be abusive to the children ? But surely them seeing such a bad relationship would affect them ? I must admit I don’t understand it sometimes .