To wonder what working parents are meant to do in school holidays?

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

DD1 starts school in September. DP and I both work because we can't afford for either one of us to be off. I have applied for part time but my work have been spectacularly backward and refused point blank, which is a whole other thread. I am looking for another job but work in a very specific field in a very specific industry so it's not looking likely that I'll get something, much less part time.
DD1 school have a before and after school club which is over subscribed so she won't get in for the first year. We have scrabbled around and managed to cover the week with GPs and a childminder.
So on to the holidays. DD1 will have 13 weeks off school a year. Between us, me and DP will have just under 10 weeks holiday. AIBU to think that if the govt wants parents (particularly mothers) to work then there needs to be better holiday provision? I'm not blindingly sure what working parents are expected to do after 3pm every day and for the 13 weeks children are off in the year. At the moment all our holiday days will be spent covering time off school and we won't be able to have a holiday together as a family.

As you’ve worked right the way through OP, I don’t know why this has come as a shock to you? You must have known that when your child started school you’d have to switch to a different childcare provider? I’m completely with you on the fact that it becomes a bit more fragmented, so the logistics might be trickier - eg you may have to use a mix of breakfast club, cm for after school and maybe a uni student during the summer hols. Whereas in nursery you drop them off at 7.30, pick up at 5.30 and they’re given all their meals. But surely the fact you’re at last not spending out so much offsets that? I did a dance of joy when mine started school because at long last I actually had some profit in my pocket after years of paying out the equivalent of my income on nursery.

And even factoring in bank holidays which you and your partner may be obliged to include as part of your overall leave, there is just no way you’ll have 13 weeks to cover. The only way that would happen is if you both took all of your leave allowance during term time. You may not have complete flexibility over when you take leave but honestly I have never ever met a parent who wasn’t able to take some of their leave to coincide with school hols. In reality you and your partner could well be able to cover at least half of the school holiday time if you take some of your leave at separate times.

annual leave
and unpaid parental leave (you have 18 weeks which you can use up to the 18ths birthday, max 4 weeks a year). it's unpaid but it helps. I have two DC and childcare costs more than what I earn.

Became a teacher partly for this reason.

We use a mixture of annual leave and a childminder who does wrap around school care and the school holidays.
It's expensive but its the easiest way because she goes to the same place at the same time regardless of whether shes at school or not when we work.

Personally I think schools should just have about 4 weeks holiday a year.Its too much as it is, lots of children leave school with poor literacy and numeracy and its because they are never there.
OP have you considered asking another parent to have your child for a week or so then you will have theirs later on?

AIBU is normally a bit of a vent, no?

If I'm perfectly honest, when I had children I just made sure we were secure, happy and in a place to afford them. It didn't occur to me to pop across to the school to see whether they thought their before and after school club would have capacity in 4 years time. Or check out local childcare/out of school clubs.

I naively assumed that my work would be more accommodating. I assumed that if a school offered before and after school care then there would be sufficient capacity (I only found out in December that wasn't the case). I assumed that other nurseries and childminders wouldn't be booked up years in advance. I assumed out of school clubs for holidays would be readily available. I assumed it all wouldn't be so very expensive. I'm very impressed that so many of you had all this covered when your children were born. Kudos.

@JennyinGucci
How poor would the health and/or relationships in your family have to be for all 4 grandparents to be dead, demented or otherwise completely unavailable for childcare when your children are young?

Both my parents were either dead or serious ill before they reached 60. DHs parents live 2 hours away and don't feel confident to drive. They are also not physically fit enough to keep up.with 2 small and fast children. We have never had help from grandparents and it's really hard.

I think people are being very harsh on OP. the whole 'You had children suck it up' attitude. It's incredibly hard juggling 2 parents working long hours, oversubscribed and expensive childcare.

This is the whole 'having it all' argument. You can't unless you have supportive grandparents offering practical help, a well paid, low stress, flexible part time, term-time job.

I agree. There is a much better provision for full time 52 week nursery before they start school.

Mine are only little bit the eldest starts school next year so I think it will get much harder.
It would be good if before and after school clubs and holiday clubs weren't oversubscribed.

Has your DH looked into changing jobs, buying Annual Leave, working part-time or compressed hours, or any other suggestions you've had made for you?

DS starts school next year and our solutions would be

Annual leave, child minder, my sister who's at university for the next 4 years, one of my aunt's who just retired early.

We are very lucky to have their support tbh.

JennyInGucci how spectacularly obtuse are you?

It's utterly normal to move away from your parents' home town to work.

It's utterly normal to meet your husband or wife hundreds or thousands of miles from your parents home, while working or studying, and for it therefore to be impossible to live near both sets of grandparents.

It's utterly normal to start a family in your 30s, meaning grandparents are often all 65+ which increases the risk of health problems.

It's depressingly common to die before the age of 70, "average" life expectancy being exactly that - some people live into their 90s (my grandmother was 99) some die in their early 60s, as my MIL did.

It's also utterly normal for grandparents to have their own lives and move away themselves without this being indicative of a family feud.

In fact most feuding families who are "not speaking" seem to live within a few miles of one another.

Where I lived when Dc1 was born not one of my circle of friends made at NHS antenatal class lived within an hour of a grandparent - we supported one another. When dc2 was on the way we moved to live near the healthy, sprightly in-laws who were very involved, but MIL died and FIL is spending time with other family in another country.

Bloody hell some people lack imagination beyond their bubble.

DH and I manage fine between us because we can juggle work hours (one shifts over which I have a lot of control/ choice, including weekends, one flexitime office job in which 6am - 2pm is perfectly acceptable, as is 11am - 7pm). I might as well say how incompetent and unemployable or how selfish, egocentric and careerist must a couple be that they couldn't find flexible jobs like we have.

lots of children leave school with poor literacy and numeracy and its because they are never there

Poor attendance won’t change with extra school holidays though

They’ve had the same input as other kids - and most kids have a decent level leaving school

What would you like teachers to do?

DH works in a university so covers almost all of the school holidays. He doesn't get October break or February break, I take those.

I have negotiated more annual leave and flexible working with every new contact. It's a constant struggle when in reality if my husband worked in a different industry we would need this. I'm always aware I would should something happen to him or we split.

How poor would the health and/or relationships in your family have to be for all 4 grandparents to be dead, demented or otherwise completely unavailable for childcare when your children are young?

What a ridiculous thing to day. I have a baby GDD. DS and DDIL live 10 mins drive away. DH and I are in our 50s but won't be able to retire until we are 67. I have only just gone back FT after being PT for my youngest DD's primary years so I am not available for my GDD.

Her other GPs live 300 miles away, which is exactly the position we were in when our oldest children were young.

This will get worse now the retirement age has been extended so far and there aren't any non working grannies to look after the grandchildren. I wonder if the Government even thought about that?

StepAwayFromGoogle has your DH applied for part time, compressed or term time hours?

Interesting article here about how different countries manage more affordable childcare. It's from an Irish newspaper so seems that provision there is variable too as some PP have said it's good in Ireland.

To the posters that have tried to be genuinely helpful, thank you again. Apologies for the sarcasm in my previous post, it wasn't directed at you.

I genuinely believe the government could be doing more to support working families, that's all, by ensuring capacity meets demand. I'm more than happy to pay for it, I'm not saying it should be free, but it should definitely be there.

Fluffymullet This is the whole ‘having it all’ argument. You can’t unless you have supportive grandparents offering practical help, a well paid, low stress, flexible part time job. YES! This. Or at least some elements of this.

I am very part time despite school age kids for partly this reason OP. Lots of holiday clubs 9-3 which are no help for many working parents. I use a childminder and occasionally a school holiday club which officially does 8-6 but is not open all the holidays and usually starts late so is very tricky for getting to work on time. The amount of shit I get at work for being so part time is unreal. Usually said by those who have grandparents doing all their childcare for free .

Honestly I think unless you can change your hours, get an au pair or a childminder or find holiday childcare with long hours or a childminder then it’s next to impossible.

Having it all is a load of shit for a lot of us.

Holiday clubs, play schemes, childminders, swapping childcare with other working friends and using less holiday between you, grandparents, taking holiday separately from your partner so you have more days to spend with children.

The best options are holiday clubs and play schemes as then you can save more of your own holiday for taking together as a family. Childminders tend to already be full of toddlers who use them full-time, and the numbers they can have are limited, so it's harder to find one who can suddenly take lots of older children.

I am a lone parent so I don't have the option of having another parent take some of the days and it makes it even harder.

And, yes, DP has applied for a later start to drop the children at school/nursery. I have to be at work for 8am and it's an hour away so DP and GPs cover the mornings between them.

@JennyInGucci seriously? Plenty of people don’t live near grandparents, or have grandparents that work full time, or who have poor health, or other caring responsibilities.

How poor would the health and/or relationships in your family have to be for all 4 grandparents to be dead, demented or otherwise completely unavailable for childcare when your children are young?

Wow.

As an aside, the government seems to have a policy of actively shutting childminders down due to their low rates of term time funding while at the same time saying everyone should work all the time.

I work 4 days so get a total of 32 days inc bank hols (full time would be 40.5). DH gets total of 33 inc bank hols.

We have all the bank hols together so between us we can take 13 weeks off. I guess we could in theory cover all the holidays between us but that would mean having no time together as a family which is important to us

We take probably 4 weeks (sometimes in half weeks) off together, three weeks separately, my Mum does an occasional day or two and my sister might take DS out for a day occasionally. The rest of the time we use holiday club. It costs £25 per day from 730 - 6pm. There are some that only cost £15 but their location is a bit of a pain and would add a fair bit of time on to my commute so it’s not worth it.

DS really enjoys going to holiday club so we prefer this option to trying to share childcare with friends (particularly as i’d rather not have the hassle of looking after someone else’s child!) I’m off half of each week of the Easter hols.

We decided to only have only one child so means family are more likely to offer the odd day of childcare and means childcare is more affordable. I guess if you choose to have more than one child then it becomes harder/more expensive

How poor would the health and/or relationships in your family have to be for all 4 grandparents to be dead, demented or otherwise completely unavailable for childcare when your children are young
What a stupid nasty thing to say.
Fwiw my MIL lives 70 miles away and both work FT, my dad lives 80 miles away, my FIL lives 70 miles away and is very ill with kidney disease and my mum is local but has had cancer twice and a brain haemorage so can’t manage more than the odd day of childcare.
All of them love their GD very very much but can’t do childcare and I am by no means unusual in this set up.