To wonder what working parents are meant to do in school holidays?

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DD1 starts school in September. DP and I both work because we can't afford for either one of us to be off. I have applied for part time but my work have been spectacularly backward and refused point blank, which is a whole other thread. I am looking for another job but work in a very specific field in a very specific industry so it's not looking likely that I'll get something, much less part time.
DD1 school have a before and after school club which is over subscribed so she won't get in for the first year. We have scrabbled around and managed to cover the week with GPs and a childminder.
So on to the holidays. DD1 will have 13 weeks off school a year. Between us, me and DP will have just under 10 weeks holiday. AIBU to think that if the govt wants parents (particularly mothers) to work then there needs to be better holiday provision? I'm not blindingly sure what working parents are expected to do after 3pm every day and for the 13 weeks children are off in the year. At the moment all our holiday days will be spent covering time off school and we won't be able to have a holiday together as a family.

I think honestly speaking I enjoyed being on mat leave more than dh. I made more friends, enjoyed the baby groups, generally had a good time. I offered dh the option of SPL but he wasn’t that bothered and knew I would be sad to give it up, so we didn’t. I am glad it’s an opt though. I know lots of people who have used it, though some took it simultaneously

Longestlurk- that’s an honest answer. I suspect liking baby groups and being at home is perhaps more a personality thing rather than anything else- and I guess some dads would be better suited to it than the baby’s mum.

I believe in some countries there is leave which can only be taken by the father on a use it or lose it basis - and perhaps something harder hitting like this would move things forward faster towards equality. But then people like having choices so that perhaps wouldn’t be very popular here

Yes that’s how it works in Norway. It’s a bit chicken and egg because baby groups are very female dominated and that may be one of the reasons i enjoyed them more than dh. Not that he minds hanging out with mostly women - but women with newborns tend to talk a lot about childbirth and breastfeeding and so on - they’re not the most inclusive. But equally I go gooey over a library rhyme time and dh does not, and I quite like making small talk with near strangers and dh does not.

I think a big part of the issue with having a use it or use it leave for fathers is that I wouldn't trust the UK not to take it out of the mother's allowance. It would have to be paid or it's pointless. When a woman needs to go on leave early, which isnt particularly unusual, she may be left with under 6 months paid leave left after the birth, depending on when the baby arrives. That already isn't a lot. It's even less if you have to share it, and I speak as someone who went back well before the first birthday with mine.

If a woman is unwell during pregnancy she doesn’t need to start her ML unless it’s during the final 4 weeks. So again, I don’t agree that there are hordes of women who are forced into taking early ML and then end up with hardly any time after the birth. It’s simply not true nowadays.

I do think that when a baby is born very prematurely it’s a different scenario and I know there is currently a campaign to improve rights for parents in this situation.

But looking at the average pregnancy and birth (and after all, legislation needs to be based around the ‘norm’ rather than extreme scenarios) it’s simply absurd to suggest that loads of women are going to be physically compromised by returning to work when their child is 8 or 9 months old.

Of course, she may not want to, and may refuse to transfer some leave to the baby’s father. Or she may be willing but he won’t accept it. But those are different scenarios from physically not being able to do it

I went back at 6 months in 2006, the rest was unpaid then (also I think no guarentee of return to the same job). I was still breast feeding and it was fine. If shared parental leave had been a thing then we would have used it (I am the higher earner).

But accuracy paid parental leave is less than a year. It’s 9 months, and enhanced maternity rights are often around 6 months. So for many people they don’t take a year anyway, and giving a chunk of this lesser period is harder going. Even after a straightforward birth I was still on demand feeding and it would have been harder logistical for me to work than dh. Not impossible but I would have needed an incentive I think, to make it the logical choice

I would've said something similar about not being forced onto ML for health reasons before it happened to me. The idea that all women who are ill in pregnancy are able to insist on remaining in the workplace but off sick is fanciful. I mean, have you any idea how many employers only offer SSP, for a start?

And again, you're applying the wrong test. You clearly think this is simply about women not being fit to go back to work, when it's also about the physical impact not necessarily preventing a return to work, but making the woman feel less up to it than the man. Do remember that lots of women work pretty physical jobs. And 8-9 months is when a lot go back without having shared any leave anyway, so if you're transferring some, you'd be looking at returning before that. The women I know who did SPL went back around 6-7 months, for example.

Longestlurker- maybe. A lot of women do seem to take the full year though. If they return earlier, even transferring the final month would go some way to resetting expectations and attitudes about women and men as parents.

Hopefulhalf- I returned at 3 months back in the early 90s and was breast feeding too like you We would have loved SPL if it had been a thing then

Sitdown, I know exactly what you mean. Women are all different, and while some are fit and eager to go back to work, others still have health problems and hormones and are struggling to establish breastfeeding, sleeping routines etc.

Also, some men aren't that great. It has to be said. Mine would have sat around all day watching TV and ignoring baby, and would still have expected me to make the meal when I came in.

But that doesn't mean that shared parental leave isn't a Good Thing for more functional couples. As an option.

True. Mine was great, luckily. Just as well since with one of them I was a complete wreck.

I went back at 8 months for 3 days and dh did 3 days. We had one day with grandparents. This was equal, and sustainable for our family, but wasn’t a pattern supported by SPL. Luckily we had progressive employers that suppported it anyway

hopefulhalf I went back at 6 months (the baby was 5 months two weeks old, as I started leave on my due date and went 13 days over) and it wasn't really fine.

Partly due to an employer disgruntled that I'd had a baby and taken maternity leave at all though - I was supposed to be first and foremost loyal to the school, on an accelerated leadership track, and it was seen as a betrayal I think..

I did also have a hard recovery and the baby wouldn't be put down day or night at first. Going back just when things were getting fun and the baby was doing so much was also a wrench.

DH actually had a better employer and was offered, and took, compressed hours and looked after her on Fridays.

I worked out my leave and became a childminder though, returning to work outside the home with a baby wasn't right for me.

I returned to full-time work once the youngest was 4, but he'll be 9 before I'm back to the same pay - new career though.

Dd was 5 months 3 weeks. I was lucky that it was a part time role I returned to (Dd was Dc2). There was an onsite nursery so I could breast feed before going to work and at 5pm.

@Cakeisbest - yes very tough that situation of explaining to kids they need to go to holiday club when they don’t want to :(

hopefulhalf that scenario is great but too many women don't have it. When I asked about expressing milk at work I was told "schools are different, you can't expect that, it isn't workable". I was told the same about my request to do 3 days per week - we had a two week timetable, it wasn't fair on the children to split classes, full time was preferable but they'd make an exceptional arrangement for me to teach a 60% timetable but all the lessons for my classes - so I worked every day but for a 60% wage, and theoretically did my marking, preparation and admin in my unpaid 40% at school. I kept being asked to cover or come into meetings though, and saying no created bad feeling because the children (not mine, the school children) should be my priority, the staff had to pull together and we all knew things were tight etc.

I worked in a large secondary school and only late in my pregnancy did I twig that of the 80 staff members there was not one woman with a child under 5. Plenty of men with babies and sah or part-time wives though. My department head admitted to staying late to mark at school to avoid his children's witching hour of tea and bathtime, before I announced my pregnancy.

When I was pregnant and had morning sickness he reprimanded me for leaving a well behaved top set year 11 unattended while I ran to the bathroom to vomit - he actually said I should have arranged cover or used the classroom bin!

When I returned to work and my 5 month old breastfed baby wasn't taking a bottle at nursery I was taken aside and asked not to leave at 3:30pm to pick her up and breastfed her, because teachers leaving at 3:30 created the wrong impression for parents.

Returning to work after 6 months, or even if you live in a country with dreadful maternity provision 6 weeks, leave probably isn't going to kill anyone, we all survived - it can be really shitty though, who wants to just survive, given any element of choice?

For those criticising posters who didn’t prepare for this, it does depend on what type of child you have.

I have two dc who are in separate special schools and childcare/holiday clubs/before or after school clubs are non-existent. I did have various forms of childcare for them in the early years but none were sustainable and their needs became greater as they got older (complex but not autism) and I have had to give up my beloved career.

Yes, that's true piano. As I said earlier in the thread, I have a DD who is v anxious about groups and no way would I be able to get her to go into a strange one. blue skies that is an appalling story. I worked in a big secondary too but one that was somewhat more parent friendly. There was still a lot of hassle but when push came to shove they were reasonable and humane. I also had to work full-time for an 80% salary. It was a girls' school with a single parent female head, which helped.

@blueskiesovertheforest when and where was this??😮that is awful!! I had a colleague (when I taught in the uk) who was given time to pump throughout school time! And many teachers are allowed to job share!! Here in Ireland A lot of teachers leave around the same time as the children, it’s almost a given that the school is empty by 4oclock!!

I was thinking about this and realised that after over 20 years in the workplace, and many different employers, I have only now got an employer who allows leave to be taken in hours, or allows Flexi time or TOIL.

In previous jobs, leave had to be taken as a minimum of one day at a time, and I even used to work somewhere that leave could only be booked as an entire week. That was when I was young and had no children but on looking back I now realise that whilst most of the staff were women, they were all childless, from the 20 year olds to the 60 year olds. It simply wasn't possible to juggle that job with family commitments.

Youngandfree Surrey, 2005. The head was a dinosaur who knew to be careful what he said on the record but catch staff in corridors to reveal his true views. He made the right noises initially when I asked for part time hours, the the next day caught me on break duty abd told me a cozy story about how his teacher wife gave up work to SAH when their first child was born, and he made the huge fatherly sacrifice of giving up pipe tobacco.

You are allowed to take up to 18 weeks of unpaid parental leave until your child is 18 (maximum of 4 weeks annually) for each child you have so the government has set out options for working parents. Maybe you and your husband could take a week/2 weeks unpaid time off during some of the school holidays?

Just curious with the unpaid parental leave, for people who have taken it how have your bosses reacted to the request? I really can't imagine it going down well with some of my employers and can you choose the time you want? I mean 2 weeks in November won't be any use to anyone.

Just been on local FB group and there's a woman desperately looking for holiday childcare for 7 yo twins - her mum was going to do it but she was rushed into hospital last week and the twin mum has now nearly exhausted her leave.

So, even for people who have G-P help it can all fall through.

Many people are posting suggestions but it's mainly of the 10-2 or 9-4 variety!

Around here the churches run free or very cheap Holiday Clubs so that helps with about three weeks of the summer.

When I was a kid we had government run playschemes from 9-3 and we'd all go to get out of our Mum's hair. Now most people work, we don't have them!

There are agencies that specialize in Term Time only jobs so you might find something suitable.