To wonder what working parents are meant to do in school holidays?

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

DD1 starts school in September. DP and I both work because we can't afford for either one of us to be off. I have applied for part time but my work have been spectacularly backward and refused point blank, which is a whole other thread. I am looking for another job but work in a very specific field in a very specific industry so it's not looking likely that I'll get something, much less part time.
DD1 school have a before and after school club which is over subscribed so she won't get in for the first year. We have scrabbled around and managed to cover the week with GPs and a childminder.
So on to the holidays. DD1 will have 13 weeks off school a year. Between us, me and DP will have just under 10 weeks holiday. AIBU to think that if the govt wants parents (particularly mothers) to work then there needs to be better holiday provision? I'm not blindingly sure what working parents are expected to do after 3pm every day and for the 13 weeks children are off in the year. At the moment all our holiday days will be spent covering time off school and we won't be able to have a holiday together as a family.

I worked 3/4 days a week when the kids were little, MIL had them one day a week, and they went to a childminder, plus pre-school at age 2.5 plus, and they went to the childminder for some school holidays, some we had off with them. It used to cost us £6-800 a month for childcare. Now they are older, my parents are around too and help as well as PIL and we don't pay for any childcare.

But I agree with your points, OP, it needs to be made a lot easier for people to have children and work.

I agree, although you do have a degree of choice via the ballot box. When I worked in local government we did an exercise whereby we asked people how they'd like to see their council tax spent, bearing in mind that if they added to one budget they'd have to spend less in another category. The result was they didn't want to spend less on anything but they didn't want to pay more tax either.

The solution is to only have as many children as you can afford and not expect the childless to subsidise those who choose parenthood.

Except the childless will expect these dc to pay taxes and subsidise them in retirement. Leaving the EU and cutting down on immigration potentially means in the future people having children will be absolutely vital for our economy to effectively operate.

Its difficult OP, particularly as holiday clubs often start later and finish earlier than standard wraparound. It is also difficult as 4 year olds can't attend schemes all day that haven't been OFSTED'd. It is then tricky eith older dc as they don't want to go to clubs......

Juggling, grandparents, parental leave are the other option. PMSL at 'get an au pair' yeah most people really have the space for another adult to live in their house.

I have always voted for anyone proposing left wing, fairer taxation options, for all the good it does me living in an area where people would vote for a donkey if it had a blue rosette on it.

We've been very lucky with our youngest. Affordable wraparound childcare at infants that ran in the summer. Since then we've had access to a very reasonable childcare facility that does school pickups, holiday club, sports weeks. It may not have a fancy building but it has a wonderful staff and a parent-friendly ethos. I've worked from home for the last 4 years and that works great for teens. Good luck.
PS I don't agree with the PP who said the problem was your earning potential. It's a structural problem entirely solvable by government and employers. Every economy needs the lowers paid workers to function.

No, you’re not paying for my state pension. I’ve made 47 years contributions at higher rate tax for that.

47 years with an income at higher rate tax level makes you priviledged by most peoples reckoning . I suspect you will tell me you worked hard for it next....

Me too @floribunda. It's frustrating being disenfranchised, the theory remains, nonetheless.

I have always voted for anyone proposing left wing, fairer taxation options, for all the good it does me living in an area where people would vote for a donkey if it had a blue rosette on it

This. And if even if you do have a more left wing council in your area they are constrained by the fact central government funding is being cut/has been cut.

I worked considerably less hard than a lot of people like nurses and carers, that's not really the issue though.

I'm a single parent and have to cover the lot, on my own with neither any help or contribution. You just have to get in with it!

Yes, it's expensive but there isn't a choice and I have to keep working. Just be glad you're only covering regular days. I'm nhs staff and have weekend and shifts to cover too. It's a nightmare, but it is as it is. You can't expect the government to be responsible!

Okay you have honesty going for you.

The point is though that some of these DC who you see as a drain on public finance will also pay 47 years of higher rate tax contributions.

Teateaandmoretea first you say that you're subsidising alsohuman in her retirement so she has no right to object to subsidised childcare, then she says no you're not, I was a HRT, then you say oh well you're privileged then so you have no right to object to subsidised childcare.

Sounds like you've worked it all out so that certain people don't get to have a opinion! Genius.

Not really how it works though is it? You don't get to choose how your tax is spent. There are lots of things I'd rather not pay towards but there you are.

Elections

Except the childless will expect these dc to pay taxes and subsidise them in retirement. Leaving the EU and cutting down on immigration potentially means in the future people having children will be absolutely vital for our economy to effectively operate.

I'm guessing you're a Guardian reader - here you go.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/19/world-without-work-utopia-hell-human-labour-obsolete

I’ve made 47 years contributions at higher rate tax for that.

Good for you. Unfortunately that money was spent by various governments during those 47 years, it wasn't put into a bank account you then draw down later. What you are drawing as pension now is being paid for by people like me working and paying taxes now, and many of us working parents. There has to be a balance and enough people working at any one time for anyone to be able to draw a pension. When I get to retirement age in twenty odd years there probably won't be a state pension, or it will be so small as to be insignificant.

No I didnt say that I was subsidising alsohuman in her retirement.

And the work free world is fictional.

Definitely sort it now. Do you have a term time only contract with the childminder? If so, ask what they charge for full days in the school holidays (it's probably similar to what you paid for a full day at nursery so shouldn't be too much of a struggle), and book them for lots of the holidays in advance.

Holiday clubs are often run at schools but by private companies renting the space, contact them now, including at other local schools.

You are in a fortunate position that you are used to budgeting for childcare already.

FWIW, the government do encourage people to become childminders, the registers and training make it easy for parents to find quality childcare. Schools are encouraged to make halls available for wrap around and holiday childcare, even if they don't provide it directly. But asking children to do longer terms /days to fit in with parents work pattern isn't a solution.

I don't see children as a drain on public finance at all. They're as you say an investment in the future. I think you have to draw a line though, where the taxpayers' responsibility stops and parents have to own their choices.

And the work free world is fictional.

I work in automation, it is absolutely, positively not fictional, and people who continually bang on about having to produce the next generation of workers and taxpayers would do well to consider its impact.

@floribunda, I pay more tax than my state pension. The government literally gives it with one hand and takes It back with the other.

It is fictional. Work 'in automation' does not cover all roles. I work in an area where I've had to read up all about it.

Even the wealthiest older people who don't need any financial help during retirement still need people to be able to afford to have children or who will be their doctors/nurses/carers/ gardeners/accountants/solicitors etc in the future?

alsohuman - no you're not paying for my state pension. I've made 47 years contributions at higher rate tax for that.

Wrong. You've made 47 years of contributions to a system which has been paying for the pensions of claimants at the time of payment, not a personal savings account. The U.K., like most developed countries, has a pay as you go (PAYG) state pension system which essentially redistributes wealth across the population, in this case from working to non-working people through NI contributions and taxes into pension payments. It is not a piggy bank system where your money is saved for you to access when you retire as you do your private pension. You're promised a state pension, but guaranteed zip because any number of economic and demographic factors could affect payments.

Proportionately, tax payers today are contributing more to current pensioners than did previous generations because the older population has nearly doubled since 1950 (from 10 to 18%, and likely to reach 25% by 2050) and increased life expectancy means that more people are claiming pensions for longer (and the increase in state pension age doesn't compensate for that). The amount spent on pensions as a percentage of GDP has also trebled from 2 to 6% over the same period and they now account for almost half of all welfare spending, around £160bn a year, not including additional allowances such as housing and disability benefits that are also needed to support older people.

It's amazing how many people spend 47 years paying for something they don't really understand, don't feel like you're alone not knowing. I hope this helps a little and you can see why the previous poster was correct. All the best.

hayf shes still paying higher rate tax in retirement.

Bloody hell. What a roasting the op is getting for asking why the govt does not provide more help to working.parents.

What is a government for if it is not to put in place things that encourage the best possible living conditions and opportunities for its people.

As to what they could do. How about providing basic funding for all schools to provide before and after school care as well as a holiday club.

Not enough funding to provide free care for all, maybe just for any pupils who qualify for pupil premium if they need it

The club's should also be available to working parents for a fee. They could be run for profit ( with some limits) which the schools could add to their budget.

@hayf. See my latest post. Hope that helps. Are you always so patronising?