To wonder what working parents are meant to do in school holidays?

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

DD1 starts school in September. DP and I both work because we can't afford for either one of us to be off. I have applied for part time but my work have been spectacularly backward and refused point blank, which is a whole other thread. I am looking for another job but work in a very specific field in a very specific industry so it's not looking likely that I'll get something, much less part time.
DD1 school have a before and after school club which is over subscribed so she won't get in for the first year. We have scrabbled around and managed to cover the week with GPs and a childminder.
So on to the holidays. DD1 will have 13 weeks off school a year. Between us, me and DP will have just under 10 weeks holiday. AIBU to think that if the govt wants parents (particularly mothers) to work then there needs to be better holiday provision? I'm not blindingly sure what working parents are expected to do after 3pm every day and for the 13 weeks children are off in the year. At the moment all our holiday days will be spent covering time off school and we won't be able to have a holiday together as a family.

@mistigri we were looking at moving to Germany for DH’ work a few years ago (we didn’t go... clearly as I’m here writing this!) and we were told that we would pay childcare (which we needed on top of school hours) on a sliding scale which was means tested, but the maximum you pay was €300 a month or something. Now I don’t know if that was accurate and being that it didn’t end up happening I didn’t look into it further; but it seems that Europe in general is much more set up for the normalisation of working families, rather than the UK which expects ever parent to work full time, but washes its hands of an extensive childcare problem. Childcare vouchers barely scratch the surface. You get tax relief on a maximum of £243 per working parent, per pay month. That is fuck all compared to the average monthly childcare bill.

This genuinely isn't meant to be goady, but I find it odd how children are the one unaffordable thing everyone gets for questioning.

If I want, but can't afford, a flash new car, I carry on with my old faithful
If I want, but can't afford, to live in a bigger, more expensive house, I stay put.
If I want, but can't afford, designer clothes, I buy cheaper.
if I want, but can't afford, a fancy wedding, down the registry office we go.
If I want, but can't afford, a bells and whistles funeral, it's a simple casket and the local crem.

But if you can't afford children (and by god are they expensive!) it's the Government's fault for not paying out more/offering free childcare/making businesses give people more leave etc

cantlivewithoutcoffee
I agree the childcare gets hared. And also as they get older it really is their parent they want to talk through an issue with friends at school with, whereas a baby just wants a trusted adult to change their nappy. (I'm not suggesting you cant chat to them at 9pm after a days work of course - just that the type of care and issues change) I know so many women that held really good jobs through the early years and then when their child hit school found they were then cutting back hours, or down grading their jobs in ways they hadn't expected.

@buzz I can absolutely see your point; but my mum was laid off work when she told her boss she was pregnant (with me). Totally legal, and she wasn’t entitled to maternity leave/pay either at that time.

It didn’t mean she didn’t want better for me. My Nan thought she was entitled for hoping to keep that job through pregnancy and to hope to come back after giving birth.

buzzbobbly children are not a consumer item but the future of humanity.

HTH.

It is not the government's job to ensure people can have access to designer clothes.

But if they're not concerned with the welfare of children and supporting people bringing up the next generation - what is the point of them?

I also think wanting better/wanting positive change for their children (and for their future grandchildren) is progress, not entitlement.

Childcare (and some cases a school) doesn't exist for children like mine so unless you have family who are able to cope with them ( increasingly unlikely the older they get) both parents working is not an option.

Mine goes to a private nursery before/after school and in the school holidays.

@sockwomble again, I find that to be unacceptable in this day and age to exclude children from childcare (and even school! That’s truly dreadful) based on circumstances beyond anyone’s control. How can we call ourselves a civilised society?

You do what everyone does - take time off with your kids, stagger you and DPs holidays, pay for clubs, pay for childminding, share with other parents and take their kids for a day or two and they’ll reciprocate, see if family can help, work from home a day or two if you can.
It’s partnof the deal when you have kids and work. All working parents have to deal with this.
Perhaps you should look at a more family friendly job option long term. That makes all the difference, having an understanding workplace.

Quite frankly some of the attitudes on this thread are disgusting.

We pay a significant amount of tax as a nation and people honestly don't think that the government could use it to make better provision for childcare.

I fucking despair.

I'm a teacher so not an issue for me personally but it is for my brother and his wife.

Their daughter comes to stay with me for a fortnight during the summer holidays. The rest of the time, they cover with the school holiday club that runs to the same start/end times as the before/after school club.

This genuinely isn't meant to be goady, but I find it odd how children are the one unaffordable thing everyone gets biscuit for questioning.

Everyone in society benefits from.children being born as when they are working age their taxes will pay for the public services older generations require. Investing in children means you are developing the scientists, entrepreneurs, businesspeople of the future that bring wealth to our economy.

Very short-sighted to think of children only in the context of their own families.

ziggiestardust unfortunately having no childcare is very common if you have a child with a disability and your child being part time at school or not having a school place ( and the only chance of getting one is by knowing the law and taking time consuming and potentially expensive legal action) is not uncommon. The system is awful.

Quite frankly some of the attitudes on this thread are disgusting.

We pay a significant amount of tax as a nation and people honestly don't think that the government could use it to make better provision for childcare.

I fucking despair.

This.

Op you can in effect buy 4 weeks leave a year as you can take 4 weeks unpaid parental leave per child up to a max. Is this not the same as your suggestion? The issue is few people take it because childcare is cheaper than forfeiting salary

Everyone sayingg Europe is so much better, you'll lay to go to the Dr in France, school. Dinners are 6 euros per day and are compulsory etcetc yes some countries are better at childcare eg Scandinavia but their taxes are higher. You can't cherry pick that some things are better, some are but some are worse

Even worse when they are in early years at senior school. They don't want to go to holiday clubs but not responsible enough to be left at home on their own all day. Even worse if your house becomes gaming central with all their friends piling in!!!

@buzzbobbly

Your post is completely ridiculous. People (who are otherwise capable of caring for them) shouldn't be prevented from having children because they can't afford to. Firstly because it wouldn't stop them anyway the biological drive is too strong secondly because it would be grossly unfair to deprive people of this most basic human experience if they want it. Comparing having a child to a luxury like a fast car is ludicrous.

Why should people like nurses and carers not be allowed to reproduce? Completely ridiculous, selfish attitude.

Hi OP

I am with you. I think a lot of people are missing the point of what you're saying.

We just need to look at things differently

No it isn't the government's responsibility to care for your children. But the economy and the fact that in most families with 2 parents, two have to work, kind of is something to do with them. As is trying to get as many mums back into work as they can.

As a society we seem to be really rigid in our views that -
We have to work 9 - 5
Schools have to run 9 - 3
Children need 13 weeks holiday from school
Adults need 5 weeks each holiday from work
If you work part time, your career progression is over
Your job and hours and location of work have got to be the same in term time and school holidays
Work comes first, it

If you were designing a system from scratch where you needed to encourage people to have children (birth rate is falling etc) and where you need to encourage both parents to work, you wouldn't do it like this

You would do all the things you mentioned

It takes a complete change in mindset though. I think we are getting there but there is still a long way to go

Unfortunately buying extra A/L won't often help over the summer holidays especially if work colleagues also have dcs and also buy extra leave...there would be nobody left in my team ...we're only allowed 2 qualified staff off at once
For years dh and I only had 1 week of A/L together in order to cover some of the summer hols ( 4 weeks) rest of the time we used holiday clubs, one run by local council, but only till 3pm
when dcs were older sent them on residential activity holiday for a week
Didn't have the luxury of grandparents as they were either too unwell/ elderly or dead

Perhaps lobbying your mp and asking them what they are doing about it is the answer.
I agree that school hours are antiquated but that's not going to change is it because who is going to pay for the extra hours all staff would work if the set hours increased?
Support staff are paid hourly and very poorly paid at that.
Teachers are paid for 27.5 hours per week, that's full time.
There is no way they can dramatically increase school hours and not pay staff.
All staff all ready work ridiculous hours.

Yes you do have to assess whether you can afford to have children or not, but really they are expensive for the middle of society (i.e. most of us) - kids aren't a right, but if we follow this logic then only the two ends of society's bell curve will have kids, and society will not be that diverse if those of us in the middle can't have kids. The government don't have an obligation to make childcare and my lifestyle choice easier, but then they also should accept they are losing a lot of skilled workers and pricing "the middle" out of having kids means in the future more will need to be state funded, or more will be incredibly rich. And I doubt the latter will struggle through a degree to work in a public service for relatively poor pay, so in 20 years time the workforce will reflect that.

I am a doctor, which means even part time means 730-1800 "short day"/whenever the operation finishes and 0730-2100 long day, and includes nights and weekends. But if I give up there will be no going back in 5 years when I have totally deskilled. The Daily Mail hates me either way - a female doctor who works 48-72hrs+ a week and hasn't time to look after their kids so they've gone feral vs. a female doctor who has gone part time to ease the cost of childcare/see her kids meaning the taxpayers wasted their money training her (she still has £40k personal debt).

rant over.

I am just hoping the miraculous overnight nursery I have found still exists in a year's time when I need it.

I agree that school hours are antiquated but that's not going to change is it because who is going to pay for the extra hours all staff would work if the set hours increased?

Do ppl actually think the school day should be longer?? Children can barely manage as it is. I actually disagree completely and say the school day in uk needs to be REDUCED! In Ireland we have a much shorter school day and we still manage to deliver a full curriculum and have play times etc.