To be really angry? I've even cried

[HelenOn]

My new job, of which I'm suppose to start next week, have called to have a chat.

They wanted to ask why one of my references came back as 'Had a lot of time off sick' (not sure if old work gave dates).

I was off a lot for the majority of my time in that role (about a year) due to crippling Hyperemesis Gravidarum (HG). My spelling may be slightly off there.

Anyway, since it is completely pregnancy related, I didn't think they could mention it in a reference.

But it's been mentioned and new employer now sounds very sceptical. I tried to explain what it is and I got a very abrupt 'We know what HG is'.

I just don't know what to do I really need/want this job and feel like crying. New job have said they're speaking to HR for a chat about it.

AIBU to be really angry at old work?

In this day and age, Purple? Is it forbidden to mention it?

Your future employer sounds just as much of a disgrace as your old one for cutting you dead like that. I would be just as angry as them, too.

I know you really need a job and it's not that simple but I think you were well within your rights to have said what you said. You shouldn't have to beg for your job.

I'm told the job market is pretty good at the moment so I would see this as a massive red flag and move on

I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed to say that. Either way, it's a shitty thing to do. Like purplecatshopaholic says, it's pretty rare now for sickness to even be mentioned in a reference, whether it's pregnancy related or not.

I highly doubt they'll withdraw their offer as it'd be seen as discriminating against you (given that it was pregnancy related sickness) - they'd have to have a damn good reason. So I think you'll be OK on that front. Sounds like you've had a bit of a shit time in general - hope you're ok.

You seem to indicate your new employer doesn’t believe you. Can you either a) get your old employer to confirm it was pregnancy related or b) pay for the gp to write to your new employer confirming this is the case.

I imagine the surgery also hold copies your sick notes so you could perhaps get print outs of these.

If you lose the job because of this reference, I would take legal action against your old employer. 😡

There isn't anything unlawful about your previous employer mentioning it as it is a fact. What may be unlawful is that your new employer reminds the offer of the job on the basis of pregnancy related illness which amounts to unfavourable treatment on the grounds of sex.

You would need to ask for advice but they would be stupid to do this so overtly

This is a post from a HR related site.

“Employers must ensure that any reference they give, or any reason for refusing to give a reference, is not discriminatory and does not amount to victimisation. Employers can be liable for discrimination against a former employee even if it occurs after the employment has ended. For example, care should be taken not to discriminate against a disabled employee in comments on performance or attendance where the issues were related to his or her disability”

You would be covered under the Equality Act for pregnancy related illness. If your former employer recorded as pregnancy related illness, they should not be disclosing this in a reference.

IF they do decide not to hire you, ask them to put in writing that the reason they will not hire you is because your previous work supplied them with information about sick days taken whilst pregnant. You can then lodge a complaint with your old employer and potentially your new employer

This would be counted as 'sex discrimination' under the Equality Act 2010 as it relates to pregnancy. I think that that counts both for your previous Employer and your current potential employer.

Legally I do not think they can withdraw the offer based on this. I agree with Hawaii507- talk to HR and explain that under the Equality Act Hyperemesis related absence should NOT have been treated as sick leave and that it would obviously breech the act for any employer to discriminate on this basis.

I would need to check employment law details as to whether its actually 'illegal' or not - but its just not done these days - generally organisations are risk averse about discrimination claims these days (and given your sickness was pregnancy related they would be insane to even mention it). Sickness is a confidential matter and not to be shared. If firms have a reference form that asks for that info - and many do as they are old forms - just leave the box blank, it is not anyones business.

I'm struggling to understand why you gave them as a reference if you'd had most of the time off sick, for whatever reason.

Maybe you're dodging a bullet with this company if they choose not to hire you because of a previous pregnancy related illness, clearly stuck in the dark ages, and you deserve better.

Definitely get everything in writing if you can, write down when they called you etc, log what you can remember from the call, perhaps even email them and recap/ask them to recap what was said on the call.

I'm struggling to understand why you gave them as a reference if you'd had most of the time off sick, for whatever reason

You often HAVE to give your last employer as a reference!

I see, Purple. I don’t know if I’m just reading the op’s post wrong but she seems to be implying that she was employed by the company for around a year, but spent the majority of it signed off sick?
How would you frame a reference in those circumstances?

TheGrey I'd reference it as 'This person was employed here at X company from abc a date to xyz a date

It’s technically true, but doesn’t tell the real story. Employed by, but not worked for.

OP was off with HG most of the time she worked for prev employer.
So how could they give a proper reference?
To avoid discrimination they could have said they were unable to give a reference as employee hadn't spent enough time at work.
The OP could have explained reason to prospective employer

Yes, what we would do is keep it brief. This person was employed in X role between these dates. I would not say more than that. References these days are not really worth the paper/email they are printed on as so many employers, my own included, are so worried about putting something litigious in writing.

I’d speak to HR at both your old employer and new employer quoting some of the excellent advice you’ve been given here. Goodluck. Awful phone call to receive.

Until you see what they said, you can't really decide that either company was wrong. You say you were ill most of your last employment. At most it would 8 months out of the 12.

It's totally understandable that the new company would be weary of someone who was ill most of their previous employment.

I would ask if they'd agreed to meet with you and you go with you doctor sickness showing that indded, the entire sickness was pregnancy related. Also, did the second reference showed a good sickness record?

Tberes a lot you could do to deal with the issue. Saying that they should have mentioned it does indeed mn aje it sound like you want to hide things which won't help.

I'd email HR at the new employer and say you are disappointed your former employer included a reference to pregnancy-related illness and this should not have occurred. You could say something like 'as you will appreciate, the sickness absence is irrelevant to this position and I have had only x days off sick since returning to work from mat leave.'

What hawaii507 said!

Discrimination under the Eqaulities Act 2010.

It’s terrible behaviour. They should have simply said “we can confirm x was employed from x date to y date.” They absolutely shouldn’t be telling them about maternity related sickness.

That seems very unfair. There is some information here www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/getting-a-job-reference/getting-a-job-reference/ about your rights regarding references.

It also suggests asking the new employer for a copy of the reference so that you can see exactly what has been said. This might be useful as you can then give them the facts about your pregnancy etc?

I'd find out who actually gave the reference. I'd be stunned if HR did as most employers protect themselves and only confirm job title and dates employed so they are not accused of giving someone a 'bad reference'.

I wonder if it has been completed by someone you worked with, not HR, and this is their way of possibly getting back at you being away unwell a lot.