Isolation booths

[Pliudev]

Ok I'm ready to be shouted down by long suffering teachers but isn't the use of isolation booths an infringement on a child's human rights? I've read today of a child who attempted suicide while being kept in one of these punishments booths for prolonged periods. And of a boy who spent 35 days in one. What have things come to when schools can inflict this kind of punishment? In both of these cases the children had mental health issues. If parents isolated their children in this way wouldn't that amount to abuse? And isn't it an indication of failure on behalf of schools that there seems to be growing use of this kind of punishment? And how can schools justify fining parents for taking children on holiday if it is ok to suspend their education for long periods in isolation?

I just don't see what schools are meant to do now. They are being expected to plug every gap.in society - watch out for radicalisation, CSE, students with mental health disorders, work with parents who aren't coping, provide food, clothes, laundry services to students whose parents can't or won't but who aren't supported by social services, support students who are waiting for CAMHS, solve knife crime, provide sex education because parents aren't.... Then if they've got time they could maybe teach the subject that they've trained to teach.

⬆️ This. And all on less money than before.

In every school I've taught in, isolation looks like the pictures posted - a room with the type of desks you used to get in libraries for individual study. That's all. It's hardly a padded room...

Aside from academies with crazy uniform rules, getting to isolation is usually a bit of a drawn out process too. Students aren't ending up there for forgetting a pencil or a bit of low level disruption. For eg. student storms out of lesson shouting 'just fuck off' = after school detention. Student kicks chair over, shouts "you fucking cunt" at teacher and refuses to leave room, necessitating removal by on call staff = isolation.

My memory of secondary is the same as lhw's. 26 kids desperately trying to learn and 3 disrupting everything. And mostly these were not young women with SEN, they were just cunts.

We are not hearing from the (many) parents for whose children the occasional half day in isolation (or the threat of it) does work. Or from the parents of children w SEN whose children need a calm classroom and absence of bullying in order to cope at school.

I'm a teacher. I'd also like to know what should be done with a child who is disrupting the whole class? (yes may be MH issues, may be learning disability, may be poor parenting) If your child is one of those being affected by not being able to get on with the lesson, really what would you do? Do you think each disruptive child should have its own member of staff?

DobbysLeftSock

I completely agree. I don't think people understand what is going on in some classrooms.

I was bullied by one boy to the point I wanted to kill myself. He was disruptive in every class. Putting him in isolation would have meant many other pupil's education wasn't disrupted and would have meant I could have gone to school without fear.

It has its place.

I was lucky with my DD there was one Secondary Modern School a short school bus ride away in catchment. I will not send my other DC to an Academy. I believe they have failed all children.

My DD was a YR7 a bit forgetful/ disorganised, but a high -achieving, people pleaser. Her grades were high her behaviour in class and attitude for learning was Excelling etc etc but she repeated got detentions for very minor things.

The anxiety caused her to self harm.

A member of the School Orchestra, Cross country team, Drama club, Dance Club and was even picked for Open Evenings to show prospective students round!!

She has now settled into the other school and is very happy and has not had any detentions and is thriving!

I agree 100% that teachers have a very hard time in managing students but, as pp has said, the lack of funding is at the centre of this. Both students and teachers suffer from these draconian policies and teachers have to do the bidding of governors who never see the inside of a classroom. They get all the backlash of pissed off parents and students with very little support.

The system is failing both teachers and students. And academisation of schools was the stupidest policy ever. It achieves nothing, but it is storing up massive problems for a whole generation.

If a child is constantly disrupting the majority of other pupils learning what else should they do?

littechistmasnouse not to worry if you missed my suggestions, just to be clear I mentioned suggestions not strategies.

I think it is detrimental that outdoor learning does not carry through to secondary school (again feel free to read the evidence in sen and behavioural issues and bullying and how outdoor learning is beneficial for children)

But as I have said my experience is in primary. Again you may not have read the thread but we have had examples of inclusion booths being used in primary (on this thread) with a 5 year old resulting in long term negative consequences.

To quote grasspigeon
We all need to speak up, lobby, vote for change. Get it on the agenda somehow. I think its sad how resigned people get to bad situations.

The education system has been broken by austerity.

My ds does not go to school because he has ASD. However he is extremely bright and would not do well at a specialist school. He can't cope with the day to day dealing of a senior school without help. Help is not available to him because there is no funding.

If i sent him to school he would end up in isolation if he could get a ta full time he could go to school without him ending up in isolation

I agree the education system is broken. Look at how sure start centres have been shit even though the evidence form them showed real true benefit to the community.

I have lobbied my MP, no response. I've been in touch with the academy governors and was told to like it or lump it, basically.

I am in no way suggesting that bad behaviour should not be dealt with, all I'm asking is that the onus should not always be on teachers. There should be a complete rethink of the policy as it doesn't work, but I fear that'll not happen anytime soon. What makes me so angry is that the children and teachers are being let down to the extent that there is a recruitment crisis in teaching and no wonder, it's turned into a shit job.

Despite all this, teachers can walk away if they choose to, children can't.

finishers

I have read the whole thread.

I think your suggestion of outdoor education at secondary is quite niche, very specialised and maybe could work in a well funded very small cohort school. In a large 1000 plus comp trying to deliver the full curriculum? Not so much.

If you genuinely don't want schools to have to resort to isolation then you need to suggest realistic alternatives. A school I know did use alternative provision for some students but this was hugely expensive and was the result of many other failed interventions. No way could they afford to do it as a first or second line behaviour management intervention.

Schools are catering to the masses. You have to be able to fit into that and sadly there are students that can't. You can't expect a school to develop bespoke provision for every student there because there just isn't the funding for it.

I am completely opposed to academies yet sadly there are no schools that aren't academies in my LA and most are part of a MAT. More parents need to be aware of what is happening in education now.

The thing is that any alternative suggested will be met with a funding problem.

I've been in touch with the academy governors and was told to like it or lump it, basically.

I would hope that they expressed it better than that but sadly i think they've told you the truth. There is no money. What can they do? The answer is more support in classes either 1:1 or small groups, time out spaces where students can go when they need respite, better resources so that students can access via whatever medium they prefer, smaller classes that can adapt and accommodate the needs of all learners but these all cost money and lots of it. When schools have cut to the last penny what can they do?

You seem to be suggesting that your son's behaviour isn't great - what would make the difference for him and how realistic would that be on no budget?

Littlechristmasmouse no, that's not exactly what the governors said, but that's the jist of it!

I've had 4 of his teachers say that his concentration has gone down massively since the school got rid of most of the teaching assistants. That's his problem: lack of concentration. He daydreams, stares out of the window a lot and once his concentration is broken it's really difficult to get him back on track. None of his teachers have said his behaviour is the real issue, it's his lack of engagement that causes the problems. The TA helped massively with this, but she's been made redundant.

I've tried to get an earlier assessment for sen by paying privately, but there are no practitioners in my area who do this.

I thought that academisation would bring in much needed funds to help with this crisis, but all I can see is that there is a free uniform and tie and not much else.

Unless Outwood have changed their isolation since the legal proceedings (as referenced in the guardian article on the first page) they really are not the type of set up that people have mentioned and they are used for low level 'bad' behaviour.

The original posted article mentioned the Outwood Trust. The isolation booths are nothing like the photos posted.

Sorry littlechirstmasmouse I genuinely thought you mustn't have read the entire thread and the shocking isolation practice which has been mentioned.

It is a case of getting budget cuts reversed but also the promotion of caring and empathy. A child having been put in isolation for 35 days over a term is appalling and I hope shocking. The term isolation booth is shocking in itself. A 5 year old being put in a small confined room. Appalling and surely teachers on here can't be surprised by the long term consequences of such damaging and cruel behaviour.

I guess one of the reasons I love outdoors is that carers and teachers traditionally have a great deal of control of children in what can be small spaces with your average class cramming in 30 children. The outdoors changes that dynamic and it takes the issue of confinement away.

It is a shame that getting in touch with nature is seen as niche though. There are massive benefits for all children but especially those with Sen and who experience bullying. It need not always cost too much ether.

Dothehappydance. It doesn't really matter that the isolation booths are like that or not. There are plenty of schools all over the country where the booths are exactly like that, so I don't see your point?

dothebappydance is correct I mentioning the Outwood trust.

Do check out their draconian policy.

Children were expected to sit upright and look forward they were not allowed to out their head on the desk.

They were allowed 3 5 minute toilet breaks per school day.

They were escorted to lunch and expected to be silent during lunch and all day.

They were not taught anything.

Government cuts mean that my school has had to get rid of:

5 deputy student support people
3 behavioural support teachers
3 mental health mentors
2 SEND teachers ( + one who left and wasn’t replaced)
4 TA’s
Isolation room ( no one to staff it)

Big comprehensive. All support staff are cut to the bone. It’s disgraceful the lack of support for students due to cuts. This is a good school who have tried so hard to hold onto these staff. There is just no money

Three five minute toilet breaks - well wouldn't that be great if you had your period

I thought that academisation would bring in much needed funds to help with this crisis,

Sadly no. In my opinion it's a con. The government are just passing on costs to schools without giving them the funds.

Previously the LA would have provided support, even though the schools were charged I believe that the cost was subsidised. Now schools have to pay for literally everything the cost is unmanageable, hence why MATs are now encouraged in order to share some of the costs amongst schools (so basically a mini LA!!!!). It is outrageous what they have done.

I do honestly feel for any child that requires any extra support. But on the other hand I can understand how teachers just cannot give that support when they are on their own in the classroom.

Disruptive behaviour should necessitate parents having to come to school and remove their child for set periods of time. If parents lives were disrupted in this way they might do more to teach their children how to behave and show others respect.

Teachers have difficult jobs and with the many special needs being managed in main stream education the last thing they needs is pupils deliberately acting like arses and parents condoning it which is very often the case.

I work in childcare and look after a child who kicks and punches the teacher and deliberately soils himself in class then refuses to let anyone clean him up. His mother says that’s just his way of expressing himself as he’s bored in the classroom.

Let her keep him at home and have her working life disrupted over and over. She may then be willing to rethink his methods of self expression.