Isolation booths

[Pliudev]

Ok I'm ready to be shouted down by long suffering teachers but isn't the use of isolation booths an infringement on a child's human rights? I've read today of a child who attempted suicide while being kept in one of these punishments booths for prolonged periods. And of a boy who spent 35 days in one. What have things come to when schools can inflict this kind of punishment? In both of these cases the children had mental health issues. If parents isolated their children in this way wouldn't that amount to abuse? And isn't it an indication of failure on behalf of schools that there seems to be growing use of this kind of punishment? And how can schools justify fining parents for taking children on holiday if it is ok to suspend their education for long periods in isolation?

As a teacher i agree with many of the posts here regarding lack of funding being the main factor. Particularly withboutside agencies. Social Care and CAMHS are completely overrun. Waiting lists for young people are staggering unless actively suicidal.

However, i do feel the new GCSE Specs are not suitable for all. The curriculum had narrowed and is not suitable for all. A number of children can not engage with the demands of it. For many it is boring and repetitive, re writing the same paragraph for 3 lessons on a Shakespeare play they will be examined on in 3 years!
There was a place for more personalised and vocational subjects, it did suit and engage some students.
The biggest barrier to learning is often studwnts themselves. They just can't see it.

Children were expected to sit upright and look forward they were not allowed to out their head on the desk.

do teachers normally allow heads on desks? Heads on desk = a nap doesn't it?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/sep/02/barbaric-school-punishment-of-consequence-rooms-criticised-by-parents?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Have to say it sounds barbaric.

Yes by one would expect children to listen and be alert in a class setting but if they are put into isolation and expected to just look ahead and be silent then that would appear barbaric...

chocolatemadenefat how did social services respond when I imagine you had to report the safeguarding issue of the poor child who say "deliberately soils themselves" and has a parent who says it is the child's self expression?

Actually when you say you word in childcare do you mean a nursery setting where children may not yet have control of their bowel movements and urination..

(For many children control may not be fully possible until the age of 7)

Work not word...

chocolatemademefat I do agree parents should be contacted.

I would much rather be contacted to collect my child instead of that child being put into isolation for hours and hours and expected to be silent and not be expected to learn.

There will always be idiots who claim this is OK. Fact is I. The cases you mention it's 100% unacceptable. That child isn't getting an education or a chance to socialise. Isolation is meant to be a short term break there should be a hard limit on how much time a child can spend there, without question.

We need more resources to offer genuine help to children who are neuro diverse and who have emotional and mental health problems. Getting rid of them into isolation on a long term basis is quite obviously horrific.

I agree friedpamsfritters

I am somewhat surprised at the responses to this thread.

I thought people might just have more empathy.

Maybe it is all part of the Brexit crisis and people actually don't really have empathy anymore.

The child in the isolation booth or their classmates and their families seem a long way away from any solution..

And best of luck to all the other parents and children and teachers on here. Especially the children who are suffering as a result of frequent exclusions under the guise of "isolation booths"..

May the teachers you come into contact with have empathy and care and love for the children they teach (fingers and toes crossed)...

You can have empathy for the excluded child whilst also having empathy for the teachers who have to deal with behaviour which can range from disruptive and annoying to physically dangerous. You can also have empathy for the classmates who are having their education disrupted, being assaulted in class, having their mental health suffer because they can't cope with the disruption including having to be evacuated from their class while a classmate smashed up the classroom.

Obviously if you are the parent of a child with SEN they will be your priority.

If you are the parent of one of the 25 odd other students whose learning is impacted by behavioural issues of classmates then your own child's education will be the priority.

Just to say those saying they would not treat adults this way, are being ridiculous. Many many adults work in open plan offices with desk dividers and not being allowed to chat to colleagues for far longer than a school day.
Disagree with this method of dealing with disruptive behaviour if you want to, but don't do so saying ridiculous things like this.

And yes, sitting upright and not laying your head on a desk was ordinary required behaviour in all classrooms not that long ago.

I don't think long term use of isolation booths is good for the child involved, but I also understand the lack of options for schools.

My child has possible ASD but has no behaviour problems. He does use learning support though as he has dropped a gcse and goes there instead. At his school learning support is also the same room as internal exclusion. So those that have been disrupting a lesson are sent to the same room as those needing support with their learning. I feel that the same room should not be used for both reasons.

The problem with these blanket, no tolerance, punishments is that they don't work on all children. My son's school is becoming extremely strict due to a bad Ofsted so it has introduced isolation for anything after 3 warnings. It is good for someone like my son who went in once, has learnt his lesson and will make sure he doesn't return.

However, my son is in a class with a boy on the Autism spectrum and who has ADHD, who is constantly being punished for quite petty things. He just doesn't have a filter and can't always keep quiet when he is supposed to or gets fidgety. He is actually a very charismatic and sweet boy and it is heartbreaking to see this level of punishment, mainly for behaviour he can't really help. I don't know what the answer is but I feel he needs more support not isolation.

Another boy is an absolute little so and so and is constantly in there for punching people/ being rude to teachers/ bullying kids but it seems to be no deterrent whatsoever. He is the kind of boy the system would be aimed at but it is all just water off a duck's back to him.

If a school is constantly isolating a child, they need to be looking at other options not putting them in there for 35 days a term. However, I think it is good for an initial punishment. There are limited things schools can do to punish children so I think isolation has its place.

My point is absolutely relevant. The isolation areas in the reports are nothing like the ones in the photos posted.

Do those ones work? Maybe, but they are a million miles away from the ones at Outwood and probably the way they are used.

I have seen them, so I know what they are like.

Welease- I've just read your post where you explained why he's been in isolation so much and I'm gobsmacked.

I now understand why isolation has to be regulated by the government. There needs to be consistency on what constitutes isolation, no "failing" , work set for the child etc

My children are NT and at state schools where they regularly complain about discipline in the classroom. In my ignorance, I thought that isolation was for fighting

As for the poster who described isolation room in a primary school. Holy shit. Sounds like he was basically locked in a cupboard. How can that be legal?

Maybe it is all part of the Brexit crisis and people actually don't really have empathy anymore.

52% voted for a return to "the good old days". Suspect for some that includes corporal punishment and National Service.

I think that this will get worse with the current moves to try and stop schools from permanently excluding pupils.

What punishments would you agree with? Some students have SEN and their behaviour is a direct result but will still need managing, some students with SEN will still just be naughty and then you have students without SEN who need disciplining.

So if you all want to see isolation banned what would you put in instead?

littlemousechristmas you remind me people who when say someone speaks about Male violence then you will respond with "not all men are like that"...

Why don't you suggest some strategies and explain to all of us how isolation of vulnerable humans, social creatures that need to belong (even younger ones) has worked?

What part of the barbaric punishment (reference the guardian articles) do you think actually works?

A 5 year old being sent to a room with a glass screen who still have issues as a result of it?

A child having 35 days of isolation in a term, or the behavioural policy of the outward group?

A parent having to resort to legal means because their daughter with mental health issues was isolated and attempted suicide?

The ridiculous over zealous punishments for children where they are forbidden from speaking all day and not given work... because they may have broken a uniform code...

If the above example don't alarm you then I don't know what will..

Yes in the olden days children may have been beaten or expected to sit in silence or not be left handed but it is 2019.

(And I don't really need a reply back stating all your concern for the good teachers who don't resort to barbaric means (think that has been covered) and the other well behaved children who don't have special needs..)

finishers

One person has mentioned a 5 year old in isolation - I have never, ever heard anything like it. That is not replicated in schools across the country.

Same with the draconian school - that is a very religious sect is it not?

As for the other examples - no they aren't right. But it isn't right that other students, including those with SEN, are disrupted, scared and traumatised every day by students who for whatever reason are unable to behave appropriately.

I've sat on exclusion panels and read pages and pages of SIMS entries where the student has thrown things, pushed other students, spat at them, ripped clothing, ransacked classrooms causing the class to be evacuated, assaulted teachers etc. That isn't right either.

I don't know what the answer is that doesn't include huge sums of money and many extra highly trained staff but I do understand why schools feel that they have to remove 1 child from the classroom for the safety and well being of 29 other students.

I'm not saying lock students in solitary confinement but why on earth was that girl in there for 30 odd days? How did her parents not know and remove her before it got to that point? And what had the girl done to get her put into isolation and then kept there?

We had these when I was in high school in the 90's.

I was a frequent visitor and quite liked it because it meant I didn't need to deal with arseholes in my class. Although I don't think it actually helped solve anything and I didn't like that we just copied work out of old textbooks rather than doing the classwork we'd have been given in class.

Ours was like the picture on the story without the bright walls, although you're not allowed to speak in class you still get to interact with other "inmates" at breaks.

Not a new thing and not a big deal.

Does anyone think that the increase of internal exclusions has anything to do with the change in schools? My DS attends an academy where there are teachers with radios patrolling the corridors during lesson times, external doors are locked, pupils can't move around school during lessons unless they have a pass, toilet breaks aren't allowed unless the pupil has a letter from a doctor, teachers aren't allowed to use their own judgement. I went to a school of similar size with pupils from the same catchment area which had none of these things & had no more disruption than DS school. Is the school environment causing more problems than it is solving?

I think it's in part that but also that behaviour in general is getting worse and schools are reacting to it.

I never experienced students swearing or fighting in class. No one walked out or punched anything or brought knives or drugs into school.

In my children's primary school (the same one that I went to) a student brought a knife into school.

In the secondary school where I was a governor we excluded 3 or 4 students for bringing knives in, 6 or so for drugs and countless for one off serious events such as fighting or assaulting a teacher (with a knife).

It's no wonder that schools are having to crack down.

In the same school we employed 2 staff per year to deal with pastoral, mh, social issues (until they were made redundant). The problems in schools are enormous now. Honestly I have no idea how much longer they can carry on.

Sadly, in some cases, I think internal exclusion isn't being used to help improve the behaviour of the excluded child. It's being used to give respite to their classmates because the school is out of their depth dealing with such challenging behaviour. That is a scandal but not on the school. It's a scandal that funding has been cut to such a level that it's all the school can do. And it will get worse when schools can't permanently exclude (if that is brought in)