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AIBU?

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Original poster

Isolation booths

344 replies

Pliudev · 03/04/2019 09:54

Ok I'm ready to be shouted down by long suffering teachers but isn't the use of isolation booths an infringement on a child's human rights? I've read today of a child who attempted suicide while being kept in one of these punishments booths for prolonged periods. And of a boy who spent 35 days in one. What have things come to when schools can inflict this kind of punishment? In both of these cases the children had mental health issues. If parents isolated their children in this way wouldn't that amount to abuse? And isn't it an indication of failure on behalf of schools that there seems to be growing use of this kind of punishment? And how can schools justify fining parents for taking children on holiday if it is ok to suspend their education for long periods in isolation?

OP posts:
MadamMMA · 03/04/2019 10:46

I think maybe it’s a case of different practices in different schools, maybe I’m cosseted by mines good practice where the kids are well looked after and some pupils suffering with their mental health choose to sit in ISO rather than cope in class and they are all given work to do and never left alone.

KneelJustKneel · 03/04/2019 10:54

Definitely different practices in different schools.

Isolation as a last resort is very very different to the one i linked to where its isolation for wrong length ruler/not having 2 compases/ speaking in corridor /class.

Its easy to see how the same children can end up in there and in the afterschool and saturday detentions on a regular basis. Its keeping the classroom orderly but isnt supporting those kids at all.

Funding for schools is ridiculous. I honestly dont think most parents realise this. And then complain that their chidls special need isnt being addressed - schools are increasingly not able to fund the time or attention needed for basic considerations :(

RobertSmithdoesmyhair · 03/04/2019 10:55

Shocked by isolation booths? Maybe if they offend you that much, you should spend a day in a classroom of 30 teenagers and observe the shit behaviour some teachers have to deal with. Then come back to me with an alternative solution..

finishers · 03/04/2019 10:56

I think it is ok and only right to be appalled by isolation practice which repeatedly puts children into isolation.

I think it is ok and only right to be appalled and shocked about a girl attempting suicide while being placed in an isolating environment.

I think it is ok to get "wound up" about it.

I think it is typical that some posters who work in education will conflate their supposed isolation practice with extreme examples.

I think it will be typical that be govt cuts are blurred when all the media focus is on Brexit.

I think it is usual that some will blame the messenger (the OP in this case).

What can you do?

Well for a start:

Write to your MP about this.

check the @isolation practice" at your local school.

Write a letter to the head attaching the guardian article, speak to your teachers.

Get your pta to fund some assistance for sen.

Speak to your sen co-ordinator.

Speak to governors.

It is a start.

PhilomenaButterfly · 03/04/2019 10:57

And sometimes because they're not wearing regulation PE socks, at the school DD's starting in September. £7 a pair! Shock

Gingerivy · 03/04/2019 10:58

Isolation booths are not like solitary confinement in prison. It's a room with lots of desks and dividers between them. Anyone who makes them out to be hell-holes has only ever read about them.

Not all. My dc with autism was put in an isolation room at his former primary school when he was 5yo. It was a repurposed very tiny office that had windows into the main hallway, so every child walking by could look in and see him. He was alone and was given no work. The asst headteacher bragged that he had him restrained and put in there as punishment for his behaviour - the autistic behaviour that was a direct result of the school refusing to provide the support he desperately needed and also him being bullied which the school refused to address because he "fought back" and "it's not bullying if they fight back." I found out later that it had happened other times as well without my knowledge. Years later, my dc still cannot cope with being in a room when someone else closes the door and still cannot talk about it without getting very upset and "reliving" the fear.

I don't think schools should be allowed isolation booths - they have no idea the damage they could be inflicting on a child by using them. If I did that at home, social services would be called in. Schools should be held accountable for that as well.

finishers · 03/04/2019 10:59

robertsmith

Really are you saying that you would not be shocked as a teacher knowing that a student attempted to commit suicide in school premises in an isolation booth? FFS

Really - are you a teacher? HmmHmm

MadamMMA · 03/04/2019 11:04

I didn't know primary schools had isolation rooms!, sorry to hear of your sons horrible experience.

finishers · 03/04/2019 11:04

gingerivy it is just horrific how organisations that are supposed to provide protection to the vulnerable can do the opposite.

Even how someone can even defend the use to the term isolation booth.

No doubt we will get more posters on here saying:

I am a teacher we have wonderful isolation booths maybe I am just lucky to experience good practice Hmm

Prove that the isolation booths in question were not appropriate..Hmm

I am a teacher we have no funding what the fuck do you expect with 30 children...Hmm

You are not a teacher so if you have an opinion it doesn't count... Hmm

echt · 03/04/2019 11:07

Really are you saying that you would not be shocked as a teacher knowing that a student attempted to commit suicide in school premises in an isolation booth? FFS

Really - are you a teacher?

robertsmith was plainly posting about isolation booths in general. What academies get up to is outside the rules that apply to ordinary schools.

finishers · 03/04/2019 11:12

Yes I suppose he could have missed the just of the thread of the first few posts of the thread and be talking in general terms Hmm

LittleChristmasMouse · 03/04/2019 11:17

finishers

What alternatives do you propose then?

How should schools manage disruptive behaviour from pupils with SEN?

Poor behaviour from students without SEN?

How would you control.persistent disruptive behaviour? Swearing and shouting at teachers? Hitting and throwing things at classmates?

In my children's old school they used to have a learning support department, staffed by a team of TAs all able to sign and trained to support students with SEN. These were funded by the school. They have been cut back and now only work with students who have funding for 1:1 support because the school could not afford them. Of course behaviour deteriorated because there was no extra help for students.

I've heard of schools considering covering lessons by amalgamating two classes into the hall with 1 cover teacher. So 60 students and 1 teacher in order to cut the cost of supply cover. These are the cuts schools are facing. How do you propose they support behaviour management when it's becoming more crowd control at times than education?

blueberryporridge · 03/04/2019 11:17

gingerivy - this is my main fear; that other children and teenagers with support needs are ending up in these booths with long-lasting damage to their mental health.

Funding for schools is ridiculous. I honestly dont think most parents realise this. And then complain that their chidls special need isnt being addressed - schools are increasingly not able to fund the time or attention needed for basic considerations Yes and this in a wealthy country - we are getting our priorities wrong, for sure. Also, when children with ASN are not dealt with properly, this affects all the children because disruption in the class will affect everyone. ASN is not just autism, by the way, it is any kind of disability or even children who are needing support due to bereavement, neglect/abuse, illness, etc.

As for children being put into isolation for wearing the wrong socks or having the wrong length of ruler, I despair. Exactly what kind of society are the eedjits in charge of these schools trying to create? And do they not realise the effects on the children/teenagers they are abusing? (Because, in my opinion, it does amount to abuse...)

While everyone's attention has been on Brexit for the past three years, other things have clearly being going to hell in a handcart.

NC4Now · 03/04/2019 11:19

My son was put in exclusion, with no work sent down, in Year 11 (GCSE year) for wearing these shoes.
It’s not always proportionate.

Isolation booths
echt · 03/04/2019 11:21

My son was put in exclusion, with no work sent down, in Year 11 (GCSE year) for wearing these shoes

Complain to HT and governors.

nutsfornutella · 03/04/2019 11:21

My kids have never been in isolation. Is it not like this? This is the sort of thing I saw on Educating Yorkshire and surely it's designed so that the kids can't talk to each other?

Isolation booths
Isolation booths
KneelJustKneel · 03/04/2019 11:22

I was aware if the Ace education a while ago (and "paces" were the packs). Its really a whole nother level of crazy.

Ita usually in small christian schools so in its defence (!) at least the children are known by the teachers ...

nutsfornutella · 03/04/2019 11:22

35 days= 35 instances of breaking rules or am I naive?

nutsfornutella · 03/04/2019 11:24

If parents isolated their children in this way wouldn't that amount to abuse?

Lots of people on MN advocate removing luxuries like toys from a kids room when they've been persistently naughty. Is it not a similar concept? Not being goady- my kids haven't been sent to isolation.

RobertSmithdoesmyhair · 03/04/2019 11:26

Finishers of course i'm not saying that attempting any kind of self harm isn't shocking.
I am saying that inclusion of SEN children into mainstream schools, when funding has been cut and there are no support staff for these vulnerable children, is failing.
If your quiet well behaved child never had an opportunity to learn in class because the teacher was only managing behaviour, how would you feel?
What would you do if you were the teacher? I would (and have) send the disruptive child out, in order for the 29 others to be able to learn.

gigglingHyena · 03/04/2019 11:26

I suspect some of the increased use of isolation is a response to parents who fight against their children staying behind for detention, certainly in my local schools there seems to have been a change over the last few years where children are sent to the isolation room for quite minor issues which previously would have resulted in detention. Yes, that has included things like wrong uniform, in fact we had s letter from the when the uniform changed reminding parentsvghat wrong uniform would mean a day in isolation, when challenged we got a further one saying hed had a student in isolation for 3 for a uniform issue.

The BBC documentary school showed a similar set up of isolation room to the one in my dds school.

Stupidly it seems also to be the only space for those with asd or similar needs yo take a break, they offer ds an exit pass for if/when he was finding class overwhelming do he could take himself to isolation. Confused. He is at a different school!

KneelJustKneel · 03/04/2019 11:27

Nuts - i dont know about that one specifically but it can be if they dont cope with the day in isolation (struggle to sit still for example, get anxious, get told off for asking for something to do if theres no work is a local example) they get given another day.

If isolation is given 35 times for the same issue its going to show its not working for that issue. If a child is struggling with something they can need help (for example my fairly well behaved child cant cope with changes in timetable and different teachers will unsettle her - she then fidgets which would get you isolation in some of these schools) that can lead to a spiral of anxiety and further acting out.

What is needed is more funding for Sen/pastoral in schools so that the answer isnt just to isolate children but to deal with the issues.

KneelJustKneel · 03/04/2019 11:29

Giggling - that worries me. We're looking at secondary schools at the moment for my DD with asd who is often overwhelmed.

At primary shes sometimes been offered to sit with those missing out on a "treat" as punishment if she cant cope with the treat. But to her it looks like shes being punished.