Isolation booths

[Pliudev]

Ok I'm ready to be shouted down by long suffering teachers but isn't the use of isolation booths an infringement on a child's human rights? I've read today of a child who attempted suicide while being kept in one of these punishments booths for prolonged periods. And of a boy who spent 35 days in one. What have things come to when schools can inflict this kind of punishment? In both of these cases the children had mental health issues. If parents isolated their children in this way wouldn't that amount to abuse? And isn't it an indication of failure on behalf of schools that there seems to be growing use of this kind of punishment? And how can schools justify fining parents for taking children on holiday if it is ok to suspend their education for long periods in isolation?

I have googled images for isolation booths and the only ones are either desks with dividers, or full floor room dividers, but no photos of individual booths with a lockable door. Not saying these do not exist anywhere, but I suspect they are very rare.

I think the original library comparison was simply to allow people to visualise the furniture. I dont think anyone was meaning to compare being in isolation at school, as a school pupil, to being an adult who has freely chosen to wander into and take a seat in a booth in a public library. The two situations clearly have nothing in common!

The office comparison does have some merit - it is somewhere we have to be, gor a set period of time, with set rules that we didn't make, expectations of how we conduct ourselves and consequences for breaking those rules/ not meeting those expectations.

I think the original library comparison was simply to allow people to visualise the furniture.
Exactly. I was trying to distinguish between what I know as "isolation booths" ie desks with partitions and something previously unknown to me, seemingly a solitary confinement cell.

If students behaviour is so bad that they need to be removed from the classroom then I think they should be somewhere unstimulating and expected to sit quietly and do their work And if it's not? If it's a petty transgression? After a meltdown in the isolation room when another child kept banging on the divider, my son was sent to the off-site centre for a day because he "wasn't abiding by the behaviour expectations" He crawled under the desk and cried. The other child was not disciplined as she "wasn't being that disruptive".

In the off site centre my child had to sit in a tiny room with a chair and a small desk. A closed door with a small window. Luckily the lady who runs the site rang me to collect him as he really was in a bad place.
Do you find this acceptable? Are you going to find a way to justify this too?

Reading what you've written I wonder why your child is still at that school? It sounds like it is not working in any way for your child. I wouldn't continue to send my child into an environment that was upsetting them as much as it seems to be for your child.

Because there is nowhere else to send him. I can't home school, I work. I can't leave work or we will lose our home.The other nearby schools are all part of the same MAT with the same policies. I have no options. But obviously, going by opinions on this thread, if my child is getting sent into isolation he must be doing something to deserve it or there is no money to support his SEN so his disruptive influence should be kept away from the other children.

Makes me sick that children like mine, up and down the country are getting shafted.

bach that sounds horrendous.

You know some posters on this thread just truly believe they know best and they are not interested in parents and their opinions at all.

I am glad the woman at the centre had the sense to st least ring you.

Makes me sick that children like mine, up and down the country are getting shafted

I agree - children are being absolutely shafted. In some cases schools have awful policies and that is not ok in any way. All state schools are in funding crisis - as are other agencies that used to support students - and schools. It’s shit.

I hope your son is ok.

Bach what's happening at your child's school is horrendous and I am in no way in favour of schools being run that way or children being treated that way.

The point I am making is that, in my 10 years plus experience, isolation doesn't get used in that way, and while it isn't a perfect solution by any means, in the current impoverished school climate, it has a place and is an important tool.

Bach, I hope things improve for your ds.

Bach

Does your child have an EHCP? I would seriously be looking around to see if there are alternative schools that might suit them better. Have you spoken to your LA about alternatives?

I do not agree with students with SEN being made to suffer at school. I simply understand how schools aren't able to manage students with complex needs without appropriate funding.

Sadly, education as in medicine, you have to be able to advocate for your needs or the needs of your child. It isn't right and I don't agree with it but that seems to be how it is.

Just to put it into perspective- It’s not always children who are being disruptive and stopping others from learning that are put in isolation. My child was recently put in there for the day for chewing gum. Surely that only warrants a detention? But no, a day in isolation and and an hours detention on top. Before anyone asks, my child wasn’t rude or cheeky, spat it out immediately. Literally the only ‘offence was chewing gum’. Confirmed by school.
If they communicate through words, smiling, eye contact whilst in there they have to repeat it correctly the next day.

Imustbemad What does your child think of the school now?

Is your child at an academy?

Did you child know that chewing gum could result in such a punishment.

Ob bach thats heartbreaking.

My daugjter has hid and cried like that during a meltdown at home ( not happened at school) . To think he was punished for it :( children are trapped. They can't leave the school or choose anything different. Its all they know. Its awful.

It's helped me be 100% sure not to choose the local No Excuses school.

I feel so so sad for those kids. And the previous poster with it happening in primary school!?!? I thought ours was bad but its not like that.

Im so anxious for my child going to secondary and making the "right" choice.

Bach have they got much longer at that school? There must be another option or it sounds it will break him.

If my child was put in isolation I’d remove them from
The school, can’t see it ever happening tbh but that would be the end of our relationship with that school. I’m surprised people stand for it

kneel I am very pleased my child with sn is at such a caring school. I feel very fortunate.

To be honest I also am concerned that secondary school is a frightening prospect.

You can see how someone without awareness could be hardline to a special needs pupil and those no excuses type schools sometimes seem to relish confrontation.

Yep exactly. And its hard on open evening to get a true feel for the other schools. My child would like calm and order, but not the No Excuses hardline stuff.

Always go and visit schools during the day. Any that say no I would cross off my list. That lets you get a feel for the school as it really is.

On open days ask the students what it is like. What's behaviour like, how strict is it.

I think I will ask to. I cant take my child out of lessons to though can I...? I did for the primary school!

Will ask lots to the children.

Admittedly at the No Excuses school the children on open evening were unfailingly polite!

It is NOT the school's fault. It is the Tory government's fault for forcing 'inclusion' on to schools, getting rid of specialist provision, reducing funding to deal with children with extra behavioural needs. Isolation is often a last resort because schools do NOT have the means to deal with so many issues. With no funding do you expect the children to stay in lessons wreaking havoc with no consequences?

@finishers
My child doesn’t really think anything to be honest. Not the first time in there and won’t be the last.
No I don’t think they knew they would get put in there for chewing gum. Another child on a different day was given just a detention for the same reason.
I don’t see any justification for putting a child in there for the day unless they are being unreasonably disruptive to others and a detention won’t suffice.
Yes it’s an academy.

Admittedly at the No Excuses school the children on open evening were unfailingly polite!

Of course they were - we pick the lovely kids to help on open eve!

I might, maybe, just about consider a "no excuses" school for a bright, NT child who is generally pretty decent about following rules. But otherwise? No.

Which is how these schools get good results. They create a self-selecting cohort.

. I cant take my child out of lessons to though can I...?

Well yes I would. I'd still go to the open evenings because you will be able to talk to all staff, usually hear head teacher talk etc but then during the working day you will see the real school. It might be that you don't feel you need to take your child during the day but many people did at our secondary.

I went to a secondary that had massive bits of it having a no excuses culture, lateness and absence was a big no no.

My father was dying of terminal cancer but I would not miss school.

I look back at that time now with horror.

I remember I ironed the school sports bibs and made a hole and I found someone to sew it all and fix it and I remember the stress of looking for a seamstress and spending the money on it.

I missed time with my dying father because I was anxious and stressed if I was late or was made an example of.

Now the teachers might have actually been understanding if I asked but I didn't and my mother had too much going on to notice.

I have trouble missing work and honestly it is just because this awful school did have probably undue influence on me (again because one parent was dying and died and the other parent was not really capable at dealing with the death).

I always got good reports and wanted to keep it that way.

Sad really as I look back and think that I should have had time off.

Well, I’ve never been to or heard of a No Excuses school and some of the stories on here about them sound extreme and awful. To use them to campaign against isolation is not fair. The vast majority of schools are ‘Any Excuse’ and whilst these strict discipline schools may have decently behaved kids traumatised by isolation for forgetting a pen, in most schools you can send your child they’ll be traumatised by the anti-social, violent, shocking behaviour of the minority absolutely destroying everyone else’s education with every possible excuse in the world making them an exception. Teachers are bending over backwards to accommodate and understand students who swear at them, continuously interrupt lessons, are rude, andalose the school, steal things, the list goes on...Far from isolating kids for lack of equipment, I provide students with pens daily - I get through a box of 50 every two weeks. Not because I teach so many impoverished kids or kids with SEN that means they can’t bring pens but because they can’t be bothered. And if I leave my classroom unlocked, someone will go in and tip those pens out and stamp them into the carpet. But we have excuse after excuse after excuse as to why so many NT students can’t possibly follow the behaviour policy. Now all this bad press about isolation booths means they are rolling isolation incidents into one - so a kid who truanted a lesson to smoke, punched someone and swore at a teacher on three separate days one week gets one morning in isolation rather than three. So next week, once they have done the first isolation-offence, they might as well keep going as they know they’ll only be punished once.

Now, teachers are being told to keep students in our lessons at all costs - head on the desk sleeping? Well, they aren’t disrupting so don’t punish them. You are responsible for making sure they get their target grade though or you won’t make pay progression next year btw. Another kid calling all the girls in the class ‘bitch’ and ‘slut’ throughout the lesson? Well, he’s got problems and says he’s depressed and one of the things that makes him depressed is sending him out of class so just keep him in and the girls can ignore him. Make sure they all hit their target grades!

Sorry, but that’s the reality in far more schools than the No Excuses culture. I’ll admit to being shocked by the No Excuses stories on here but I can see the desperation, exasperation and frustration that would lead to that kind of culture. Most experienced teachers are just getting out of the profession altogether. Things will only get worse. The Ban the Booths will make sure things get worse more quickly.