Isolation booths

[Pliudev]

Ok I'm ready to be shouted down by long suffering teachers but isn't the use of isolation booths an infringement on a child's human rights? I've read today of a child who attempted suicide while being kept in one of these punishments booths for prolonged periods. And of a boy who spent 35 days in one. What have things come to when schools can inflict this kind of punishment? In both of these cases the children had mental health issues. If parents isolated their children in this way wouldn't that amount to abuse? And isn't it an indication of failure on behalf of schools that there seems to be growing use of this kind of punishment? And how can schools justify fining parents for taking children on holiday if it is ok to suspend their education for long periods in isolation?

Dothehappydance

I have literally never heard of any entirely self contained booth. How on earth do schools have rooms for these? Do you have names of schools using them?

kneel

Appalling stuff but hey I am just a parent of a sn child not a teacher so who am I to sat?

Say not sat

Dothehappydance- like a changing room with a door? (Cupboard?) Is there a pic of this because I've never seen one?

I bet the schools that rely on isolation don't publicise it up front - or only in terms like 'we offer individual study areas to aid students' concentration when necessary'.

The pic upthread could have been my uni library with its individual study carrels. As a place for pupils to be able to retreat to if they can't cope with the classroom, or to be sent to complete work if they are mucking about, great.

If they are expected to face the wall and do nothing, then I have a big problem with that. Maybe for half an hour, once, it could be OK. For a day or repeatedly, no.

And if it turns out schools' isolation facilities are more like prison cells, or pupils are getting isolated or detained for anything they can't help, which seems to be happening in some schools, then I have a huge problem with it.

All my local secondaries are academies and ds has ASD and extreme anxiety. His primary has been pretty good, but if a secondary's response to a scared kid hiding under a table is to punish, then it's not going to work.

finishers

But your child could be disrupted by another child or attacked in the classroom or caused untold distress by another child in the classroom. In that instance would you not expect the school to take action against that pupil? I doubt you would welcome their continued presence in the classroom, to the detriment of your child, rather than being sent to isolation.

Jack - see my link - Yarmouth/look at Magna. They absolutely do advertise it upfront. They will punish for every small breaking of a rule - for not having eyes front at all times, for not looking at a teacher, for complaining when feeling ill....

Homework should be done within 15 mins of getting home. Bed should be at 9 with 30mins to read. You should always walk in a straight line facing front direct to where you are going. You should not look at friends...

christmasmouse if you have a look at the campaign ban booths you can see that they are not aiming to stop children being separated from class in the example you give.

I am surprised if you are in teaching / education that you have not seen the rooms or high booths. I will try find a pic for you.

DS told me that there have been days at his school where they haven't had enough isolation booths for the amount of pupils being sent to isolation. The majority were sent for minor uniform infringements, one boy had a thread wide red stripe on his black socks & was isolated.

I could weep at the situation education is in here.

In the past year at my school:

SEND funding is down
The school counselling service has gone entirely
Our pastoral team is down to one person
CAMHS waiting lists are at an all time high
We have had to collapse science classes so that exam years can at least have a subject specialist in front of them rather than supply - 60 in a class
Family and YP services have had funding cuts
DV specialist services have been cut - the targeted YP services have gone completely
Specifications across the board are more challenging
There is a teacher retention crisis of epic proportions
The LA have a “zero exclusion” drive
The local PRU is full in all year groups
Teenage mental health is in utter meltdown (as a result, at least partially, of some of the above)

Schools cannot manage - we just can’t. Some shit school have terrible practice, some good schools do their best. But one of us can sustain this situation.

kneel my poor godson went to one of the schools that bizarrely made students walk in straight lines and in silence and it was primary and an academy.

It completely stressed him out as he was very compliant and it changed his personality thankfully he was able to change schools.

kneel Aoart from the not talking in corridors and walking single file, the rest sounds like the kind of rules that were routine when I was a child. I am older and most schools used to be run like this. The difference was that kids had a lot of freedom outise of school. By the mid 70s/late 70s this was becoming much rarer as new ideas werte embraced in education.
I think the induction pack is over the top, although I am not as appalled as you as I have experience as a pupil of no talking, sit up straight, raise your hand to ask a question, stand behind your chair before sitting down, etc etc. I think some of the rules make perfect sense and the reasons why are well explained. But there are a few I do not agree with.
I suspect for the generation of adults under me who had a very different educational experience, these types of rules will seem very strange and draconian. Because it is such a change from what happened in education for a bit. But that looser more relaxed schooling is not how it used to be.
In an ideal world you could have a happy and relaxed classroom. But I recognise that teachers are asked to teach kids with a wide range of issues, SEN, and poorly parented kids, so it is not always that easy.

finishers

I have only ever seen, or heard spoken about, desks with partitions either side, like we have in our borough libraries. I have no knowledge of any school using an individual isolation room as a previous poster appears to reference.

And I'm confused as to when you agree with internal exclusion being used then? From your previous posts I took it that you fundamentally disagree with them. How are you campaigning to ban them whilst sanctioning them in certain cases? I am very confused.

claire do you think corporal punishment works?

My child with possible ASD has to deal with violence and poor behaviour on a very regular basis. Last week there was vandalism in the classroom something was thrown at a light which came crashing down. There was stationery thrown out of the window in top set maths and at least 4 children in his year came in completely stoned one morning. This is at a state grammar with low levels of SEN and very few children from difficult backgrounds.

Most of the behaviour problems at his school are just caused by those that enjoy disrupting others education and making their lives a misery. And if life wasn't difficult enough for the small amount in the school with SEN there is no dedicated learning support space you share the room with those in internal exclusion.

I've been a teacher for just over a decade, I have only seen the library style study desks in the isolation spaces in any of the schools I've taught in. Work is always provided, ideally matching (as close as possible) what is being done in class so that the student isn't behind when they rejoin the class. though most of the time the work isn't done so you end up having to catch them up somehow during the next lesson

I'm not on board with solitary confinement type cells and no work provided.

I am absolutely NOT in favour of the 'shape' style uber-discipline and would never work in a school like that.

finishers I am against corporal punishment. Does not matter whether it works or not, it should not be used.

I don't know why you are confused.

Yes some of the booths can looks like booths in a library although often they are much higher and much more oppressive and crammed in (I am sure you can google if you wish to see).

I am sure some isolation booths can look actually pretty and even inviting.

But I think it is completely wrong to compare them to a library setting, or an office, when the occupant can move around and go to the toilet for more than 15 minutes a day and can lean their head on a desk or get up and move and don't need to keep looking ahead.

Some isolation units don't report who is in isolation and for how long as standard practice.

I don't need to reiterate the bad practice on this discussion.

So isolation booths just confine people without any further education and escalate punishment ie you talk when you are meant to be silent well come back tomorrow for more??

I think if you look at the campaign they are explicit that yes separation may be needed.

See if I was a teacher I would be most interested in knowing if the isolation booths causes further trauma.

Like my little godson who was freaked out and very conscious to not talk and walk that he went mute for a couple of weeks and the school didn't notice by the way and even gave him a sticker for being good.

There's a school like that near me. I volunteered briefly there when I was on gardening leave. It's a grammar area and it was one of two huge secondary moderns (technically "comprehensives") in the area. I spent time in both. This one was just a hell hole of a school. I have obviously lived in a bubble as I didn't know schools like this existed. Bullying was absolutely rife, there was absolutely no provision for able pupils. They had a very difficult intake but there were a number of really bright (at least in my subject) students there. They tried to double down on (what were genuine) behaviour issues with this "no tolerance" straight to isolation policy. Absolute no provision or support for ASD or ADHD despite what seemed to me a fairly high proportion of students diagnosed. It was hell for those students and I genuinely felt devastated for them. I also found that the bad behaviour seemed to transfer from within the school gates to outside it - the students terrorised the local area after school.

By contrast the similar school in the same area (which still had almost no provision for bright students) had a good unit for SEN - I only spent a day there but the staff were absolutely amazing and the kids seemed to be very well supported. Many also spent time in the mainstream class room but in a managed way. It was brilliant for the SEN students. The school had all manner of other problems but they tackled these issues really well.

claire I don't think punishment that causes trauma works.

As one of my favourite students says quite cheerfully 'I might have ADHD and Autism, but I don't let it stop me from being a dickhead when I want to be'.

I don't think he's the only kid who feels like that. He's ended up in Seclusion a couple of times and doesn't feel in any way abused or neglected by this, as he was fully aware that what he was doing was going to have consequences.

It doesn't always help kids with SEN to ignore unacceptable behaviour because of their diagnosis.

finishers Just because I think rules like not chatting in class during a lesson and putting your hand up to ask a question makes sense, does not make me a right wing bring back caning type.
I think as the old authoritarian ways of being in society changed, then schools had to change as well. But in some cases they went too far. I remember being shocked in the 90s to hear teachers talk about what went on in schools they taught in. Things needed to change in those schools. But in some schools now it seems to have gone too far the other way.

I’d like my children to attend a school with orderly corridors - I’ve known small Year 7s get knocked to the ground and trampled on in corridors as they can get so out of control. So I see the argument for silent corridors and if I had to choose between chaos or strict discipline, I guess I’d go for the the strict one on the grounds of safety. Rules about eye contact - I can’t see the point of that. I also don’t understand the academy fascination with uniform - I hate blazers, I don’t see why children have to wear black socks - I would prefer a more relaxed approach to uniform. I absolutely think mobile phones should be banned from school as they are a menace. I think that the really important rules - safe behaviour in corridors, no phones for example - get diluted by rules which seem unnecessarily draconian like the eye contact thing which boggles my mind. I think the isolation booth row had got caught up in this. If there are schools isolating for the wrong pencil case, I can see the argument against this. But I’m concerned that the demonisation of isolation booths full stop is dangerous to a system already buckling under immense pressures.

Paul Dix seems to advocate nonsense - his Twitter feed is full of teachers doing special handshakes and inviting children for hot chocolate and it is frustrating to see this blithely being advocated when you come home from a school where your colleagues have been barged out the way, you’ve been told to fuck off and you’ve comforted a girl who has been subject to sexual bullying, your classroom has been vandalised...

finishers You are talking about corporal punishment?

he went mute for a couple of weeks and the school didn't notice by the way and even gave him a sticker for being good

Was he mute at home also?