To apologise for arguing that discrimination against the Irish 'isn't a thing'

[wheresmymojo]

I was on an AIBU thread months and months ago where someone was talking about 'Irish twins' (used for two children born 12 months or less apart).

I argued that it wasn't offensive because Irish people aren't discriminated against. That I've never, ever seen any disparaging remarks about Irish people except in jest, etc.

Anyway...I just wanted to say: I was wrong.
I should've listened more to the Irish people on the thread and I've learned my lesson there.

With the discussions about the NI border due to Brexit I've been reading up on the relevant history (back to before the famine) and I've been shocked at how our English Govt treated your people. I've been very naive about the degree to which English education misses out some lots of inconvenient parts of our history.

I also commented on several FB threads after the recent Bloody Sunday prosecution and was shocked at some of the comments of other people.

So I was wrong, and I apologise (even if no-one reads this - it's been playing on my conscience).

Thanks - so not a nice reference then! I have only had comments when working in a state school about Catholics getting everywhere as there were three of us in the dept.
Wasn't an Irish slur as such.
My mother was an O'Leary and had a torrid time in grammar school in the 50s/60s.

Left footer is a derogatory term for catholics as in your right foot is your best foot (best foot forward) that's what i was told when i was younger

It is sad that there is still an undercurrent of anti Irish feeling still alive and kicking, I am of Irish descent (maternal grandparents are Irish) and if it's ever come up in conversation, 9/10 a joke is made, I've had comments such as the Irish getting everywhere, like cockroaches, my intelligence has been questioned 'you're quite clever though, are you sure you have Irish in you?' Asked if I can do Irish dancing, because you, know, it's a genetic skill apparently , called a Pikey, and also comments made alluding to all Irish being alcoholics.

Pisses me off no end, so thank you OP, for doing a bit of research and enlightening yourself. Few do, it's all a big joke.

My mother used to defend "jokes" about the Irish being stupid on the basis that those jokes are "part of our culture". She actually complained about "political correctness gone mad" when her friend's ten year-old son was politely steered away from putting a "stupid Irish" joke in his primary school's newspaper, which was edited by pupils. On the other hand, she used to hit the roof if anyone suggested making a joke about Scots being mean, because her father was Scottish "and he was the most generous man ever".

There's an awful lot of bloody idiots out there, OP.

Fair play to you, OP. It's not everyone who can admit they were wrong about something in public.
Jelly, I'm not clear what your issue is - op said she'd said something factually incorrect and potentially offensive, had researched, found herself to be in the wrong, and was sorry. Isn't that exactly how we overcome bigotry and ignorance, by people who AREN'T bigoted educating themselves and standing up and seeimg, yes, actually, discrimination exists and its wrong? How is that a bad thing? She wasn't saying all English people shoukd apologise for being English. Just that she'd said something she regretted and was sorry. I can't see how that's a bad thing unless you think people shouldn't own up to their mistakes - or if you think it wasn't a mistake, I suppose.

Sorry, by Jelly I obvs meant rainbowjellies

It says a lot about someone to admit they are wrong, fair play to you OP.

if anything Brexit has helped teach people about Northern Ireland and Ireland.

Sorry @weirdbutok I meant native Irish (as in Celts).

If you're Irish and not Caucasian it may be that you have other racism but it's unlikely your family were impacted by the Irish famine and that Irish specific racism is aimed at you (unless the person doing it is seriously mixing up their cultural stereotypes as most Irish stereotypes have roots in times before non-Caucasians would have been on the island).

Happy to be corrected on that point as I haven't studied immigration to Ireland in any depth but my assumption would be it started in the 20th Century and the Irish tropes have roots that started way before that.

If you're Irish and not Caucasian it may be that you have other racism but it's unlikely your family were impacted by the Irish famine and that Irish specific racism is aimed at you

Oh no, not at all. Phil Lynott who was mentioned upthread is an example of an Irish person who wasn't Caucasian but whose family would have been impacted by the potato famine. There are/were a lot of other people with similar ancestry. And of course, they get a double whammy of the bigotry.

Thanks OP.
Irish in London here. Have never personally experienced any racism whatsoever in the 15 years I’ve been here (I suppose gwan gwan, to be sure etc probably count although people I’ve come across have said it affectionately, I can’t bring myself to get offended)

Some general observations however:

The general tone of the media wrt Ireland in the modern Brexit era does surprise me. When so called educated people discuss it in terms of it being an “Irish problem” and put forward solutions such as Ireland also leaving the EU or suggesting that NI become part of the Republic and stick a border in the middle of the Irish Sea etc. (Paraphrasing badly here but you get the idea).

The fact that any threads re Ireland tend to include reference to the IRA, Thereby conflating the Irish and the IRA, as other have said.

The general indifference to Ireland also irks me, the fact that many of the UKs citizens think (assuming they give us any thought at all) that Ireland is part of the UK and take credit for our successful actors/writers etc.

ThIs was a very widely read article in Irish Times a few months, it captures how a lot of Irish people feel about British perception of us as a nation. It’s worth a read.

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/english-ignorance-about-ireland-just-isn-t-funny-anymore-1.3677267

@wheresmymojo could you share the links on some things you have read please? I am interested and also feel I would benefit from brushing up on my knowledge of the Irish.

Thanks

My feeling is that racism has gone on the world over. Our world history is fighting and yes oppression, whether that be tribal wars and acts of vile aggression between tribes in Africa, or the ongoing atrocities of war the world over.

These things are notnacted by the peoples of these communities, but the leaderships, which most often the actual peoples of respective nationalities do not do, or necessirily agree with, but are bombarded with propaganda to buy into/support.

The world over millions are set against each other by the few power hungry.

So long as we as individuals set ourselves apart from condoning any of it, i.e. not continuing to hold grudges against those supposedly involved as a nation. Like stupidly thinking our fellow european German population have blood on their hands!! Just stupid, they don't. We have international students; this stuff needs to stay firmly in the past, unless to serve as warning to us all.

As an Irish person in the UK, OP's post and most of the responses here are so refreshing. Thanks x

I'm a Northern Irish Protestant who strongly supports the Union and would just want to highlight the prejudice faced on a daily basis.Like any community, there are more complexities than you might think.Brexit has significantly increased these but they were always there.

@streamside do you identify as Irish?

20-25% of the population left to die when the ruling Government were perfectly able to prevent that (not the blight, but could have supplied corn).

My view of the British in Ireland started to change when I discovered that the British landlords were exporting food throughout the famine.

It was a problem of distribution as much as of blight.

@FinallyHere - It was a problem of distribution as much as of blight.

Distribution was not the problem. The problem was official and unofficial policy. Many landlords wanted to get rid of tenants in order to turn the land over to pasture, which was more profitable. While some landlords were good to their tenants during the famine, they were very much in the minority. Many looked on it as an opportunity to get rid of the tenants and evicted them at the first opportunity.

Official policy was very much laissez-faire economics which argued against the morality of assisting the poor because of the consequent risk of stultifying initiative and self-help among the Irish peasantry.

The Young Ireland leader John Mitchell said that "God sent the potato blight but the English created the Famine".

@HeyCarrieAnnWhatsYourGame, I haven’t seen/read they play no, but I am aware of the similarities in Ireland and Scotland. It’s heartbreaking really. I will look up the play sounds interesting thank you.

@MindyStClaire my point was it would be easy to have anti-Irish sentiments if you've been a victim of the IRA, surely you can see that?

OMFG!!! Absolutely nothing about that statement is even remotely ok.

Thanks op, I remember that thread.
I’m Irish, born and have only ever lived in Ireland, My father is Irish and my mother is English(her mother was Scottish!)
My parents met and married in London in the 1970’s.
My mother says that people would speak to him and ignore her because he couldn’t help being Irish but she chose to marry him.

I remember reading a thread last year where someone was asking for advice for treating a burn. One reply said”This sounds a bit Irish but wrap it in cling film”
I asked what a bit Irish meant and was told a bit backwards.
I reported the comment and it was removed. I remember the name of the poster and every time I see her post I think she’s a dick.

Very thought-provoking thread; thanks for posting, OP and for admitting you were wrong, too. So rare nowadays and shows huge strength of character, IMO.

Delilah, I never experienced anti-Irish sentiment in fifteen years in London. However, in the six years I’ve lived in rural England, it’s been an entirely different matter. I would call it semi-regular, worse among older people, and very much along the traditional lines of fecklessness, drunkenness, backwardness, superstition etc.

Well done op. Really nice of you to say and to research.

As a Catholic living in NI, it still shocks me regularly how little English people know about Ireland/Northern Ireland.

I kind of get that the starving of Irish, stealing from them etc isn’t taught in many schools as it doesn’t paint the greatest picture. Blatant racism against the Irish is so openly ha ha that it really shocks me.

The no dogs no blacks no Irish isn’t a million years ago either it was pretty recent.

To the pp justifying their dislike of the Irish because of the IRA you are shockingly ignorant. Please remember they represented one side of a civil war. They weren’t fighting themselves. They also weren’t supported by all Catholics.

Another common misconception that irks me is that to be Catholic you must be nationalist. They are two totally separate things.

I think unfortunately now the DUP have realised that they aren’t as well valued across the water as they thought they were. To those saying we should have a united Ireland and a sea border, I’m pretty sure Ireland don’t actually want us either.

I’m Irish and I’ve lived in England for twenty years and I can say I’ve never experienced anti Irish prejudice (which is not the same as saying that others have had the same experience as me). However, I have experienced massive class prejudice and I honestly feel this is often so much more of the problem in England, especially middle class southern bits. I’m aware I do roughly a million things a year that my English MIL thinks are vulgar that no one would think twice about in Ireland. Saying toilet is just one example.

my point was it would be easy to have anti-Irish sentiments if you've been a victim of the IRA, surely you can see that? But actually I can separate it and I don't

I am Irish and have been a victim of the IRA, what do I do with my anti-Irish sentiments? Oh no, they're not anti-Irish they're anti-terrorist.