Supporting elderly parents who were insistent on 'enjoying retirement'

[Keeg]

NC in case I get slaughtered...

When my kids were young we could have really done with GP help, but there were very much (as is most of mumsnet!) of the school off thinking ‘we’re done raising kids’. I coped, I raised children and I knew it was my responsibility... but I’ll admit I had some
Unvoiced resentment. DH and I had similar jobs to them, but a higher level, but we never had been able to access the housing etc they had due to the much higher childcare and housing costs. They’ve lived nearby in great affluence whilst their grandchildren were wearing second hand, a bit overcrowded etc. Obviously not their problem, but on the flip side they had great capacity to help and didn’t chose to exercise it. They probably spent 6k-12k on holidays a year, whereas 1k for us would have meant for example being able to run a car.

They didn’t offer childcare bar very very occasional inconvenient seeings, for example 1-2pm on Saturday, wanting them dropped off and at a time of day with heavy traffic (turning an 8min drive into a 40min) and meaning there was no time to do anything else. I remember an occasion my son had a last minute amazing opportunity and they couldn’t help by watching his sister (I later found out it was because she wanted to go and see a film at the cinema, 15 min walk away and on for months multiple times a day). They retired pre 60 with big lump sums and pensions, very active and able. No issue with health.

I left them to it, never commented, it’s their life. But I’ll admit I was underneath jealous of every friend who seemed to have GP helping. BUT they are now older, they are needing support and I’m not feeling at all warm in rearranging my life to give it. For example dad can’t drive right now, temporary due to an OP, and he wants hospital lifts. I feel like saying ‘get a cab’ because of all the times I wished for help. It’s hugely local, and I being petty? Or have others felt like this. In the long run, although I get on with them, I don’t feel like every offering to let them move in. They didn’t help their parents (who did offer childcare). I guess I feel a bit heartless but a bit ‘you made your bed, now lie in it’. Being nice I think, we’ll they obviously raised me as a child, but then on the other hand I think their expectations were that links stopped at 18. I don’t dislike them, but I don’t feel hugely bonded to them either and more like people not related that get on

my mum was a kid during world war 2...........in Italy. She was born in 1936.

She remembers having to hide in the cellar when she was a child. You would be surprised at what some can remember from childhood.

Dungeondragon15 the phrase ''remove the plank from your own eye before you attempt to take the spec from your brother's eye'' come to mind. I appreciate the time and trouble you have taken to put me in my place.

You are quite correct: everyone DOES deserve good treatment from the NHS. The problem is they do not get it. You do not have to take my word for it. You can go and visit the elderly in a gerontology ward: how many patients are on the ward? How many staff? How can they feed that many patients at meal time with so few staff? Is there a public telephone that works? Do they have the opportunity to watch TV as on other wards?On the news continually the NHS are bleating that old people are taking up beds young people could have. That gives an insight into what happens on the wards. I have been disgusted at what I have seen.

@llizzie ive noticed that attitude too. The NHS arent exactly covering themselves in glory there.

Keeg I’m a baby boomer. Life was hard but you’re free to not believe it. Childcare for us was more than my wage as a night nurse. The only handout was family allowance. I grew up in a house without a bathroom, just a toilet outside. No central heating either. Dad was disabled but no financial help because my mum worked 12 hours a day when sexism was practically legal. My husband had to deal with unchecked racism in the workplace on a daily basis. Health and safety consisted of standing on a cardboard box under a machine ( he was burnt as a consequence and had to sue for compensation). A friend of mine was disciplined for taking 2 nights off work due to a miscarriage (night nurse). The idea that Baby boomers had it easy is laughable.

Would you want your children to help you when you are old and infirm? If you would, then help your parents and show your children how it is done.

@burn I think it’s all relative, and the argument that the older generation are out of touch and the younger generation are soft/stupid is as old as time, as well as overly simplistic and serves only to divide people. It doesn’t matter what age you are; a twat is a twat. I’m sorry for the racism your husband suffered, that sounds absolutely intolerable

I think "womandear" comment is best advice you could have.

Would you want your children to help you when you are old and infirm? No, it's not up to my kids to look after us when . we are old and infirm - we will not be trying to shape their thinking in this regard. We will be getting involved with any kids they have - I hope we will still be in each other's lives enjoying and supporting each other.

Would you want your children to help you when you are old and infirm?

I would like my children to want to help me in some ways when I am old and infirm. I would not want them to sacrifice their lives for mine. I see it with some of my friends (in our 50s) where their late 40s and 50s are dominated by being an exclusive carer for a parent where the parent could accept outside help and free their children (well their daughters)

In 2 cases where the women are single, I see the years when they should be building lives with connections to friends/interests/long-term relationships with others (not necessarily romantic) sacrificed on the altar of their parents' needs. One of those women is now 70 herself. She is beginning to build a bit of a life but it isn't as rich as it could have been. The other is in her 50s and I have known her mother for more than 45 years and I do judge her for robbing her daughter of the life she had herself. She could accept outside help and free her daughter (and to a lesser extent her sons) but she won't. Frankly I think that is selfish and not something I would want my children to emulate.

I did care for my parents as did my sister. So our children have seen how that works. But they also saw our parents being engaged, loving, interested, desperate to help us if they could, willing to be part of family that included more than themselves (which seems to be how the OP's parents think). my children remember that more vividly and it has made a big impression on them.

Yes it is laughable that all baby boomers had it easy. My mum is a baby boomer, she was also a single parent. Single parents then were treated like dirt. She had to work and used to pay a neighbour to keep an eye on me. And I was aware from comments by friends parents that I was a bastard. It is hard I suspect for people now to understand how single mums were seen. The stigma was similar to how a drug addicted mum would be seen these days.
My mum kept me though, because of the stigma and difficulty making enough money to live, most mothers gave up their kids for adoption.
I am glad that single mothers and their kids no longer have to go through what was then routine.

I completely agree with you OP, no matter what the MN mantra is I think any decent parent - given there's no family fallouts or issues - helps out with childcare now and again. And should never expect elderly care to be a given.

I am all too aware of my failings as a parent and I would hate to be a further blight on the lives of my children, I would hope that when I'm elderly I am nice enough for them to want to spend time with me but no way would I want them to have to do any caring work.

With so many people these days unable to leave home or unwilling because of high housing costs ......well I think a lot of these people will find themselves trapped because their parents will start to depend on them whilst they live at home and then it becomes impossible for them to leave

OP’s “mantra” seems to be the MN “mantra”. Yet we see thread after thread where grandparents want to look after their grandchildren and the response is “They’ve had their turn”.

That is because the MN "rule" is GP's should offer full childcare if the parents want this, but if the parents don't, the GPS are CF for suggesting it.

Pretty much.

Thanks ziggie. My father in law told me about the no coloureds signs in windows. My husband was kicked off his bike as pre teen by a police officer. His wonderful foster parent reported it and was told well yep he will probably break the law anyway because he’s black.

Nope they dont have to help you.

But neither do you have to help them.

Id make an exception for emergencies and medical appointments but no more than that.

helenadove I do not think there is any doubt that elderly people are treated very badly. It is no use complaining either. Their lawyers are trained especially for the NHS and have a plaster for every sore.

My mum kept me though, because of the stigma and difficulty making enough money to live, most mothers gave up their kids for adoption

Back in the 1960s my mum earned a third of what a man doing the same job earned and that was perfectly legal. The man in question was single and my mother had to maintain three children on her own.

Would you want your children to help you when you are old and infirm?

Interesting question. I would not like to be a blight on my dd's life, but if she doesn't help me I will probably starve to death.

I understand that it is fucking hard to look after an old person and even harder if they live miles away. I don't blame people for not wanting to take on that responsability. My parents died before they got to that stage and I would have hated to have had my freedom curtailed by being turned into a carer.

But what I think is frankly dishonest are all the excuses being given.

What I think the OP should do is tell her parents why she's backing off. As selfish as they are, they deserve an explanation.

It is not hard to care for old people so long as you do not take control. It is the bossy way people go about 'helping' the elderly that makes life hard for all. My late mother was always the 'boss' in her home as far as I was concerned, and the attitude of my siblings was crushing. She never displayed signs of dementia with me. She remembered everything, yet after a visit from my siblings - who lived nearer to her - she was a bundle of nerves and afraid to put a foot wrong in case it came back to her. Once the parent has to be the child or suffer for it, chances are it will never work out. I worked part time for 7 years on the women's ward of a psychiatric hospital and kindness always produced a different response. My MIL came to live with us when diagnosed with cancer and she was no problem at all. She did not want to be a burden, but it was difficult visiting her with the children and I had to beg her to come and live with us. I cannot think of a single thing she said out of turn and the children loved her.

It's tough.
My parents never helped me, in fact when I told my mother I was expecting dc1, their first dgc, she said I was never to ask or expect help from them 😳. No reasons and both fit, well and comfortably well off. Different story for my sisters, their children were constantly welcomed and hours spent looking after them.
Now both parents very elderly (in their 90's), frail and ill it's constant demands for visiting and help, won't pay for Carers or help.
Resentful me? Yes, I am.

@Hearhere I think you could be right. I've already seen the financial equivalent when parents get used to the rent their adult children pay them and become reluctant to see them move out. It's not much of a stretch to imagine there could be a number of 60-70 somethings who have never had a chance to have their own lives because they were trapped like this.