Supporting elderly parents who were insistent on 'enjoying retirement'

[Keeg]

NC in case I get slaughtered...

When my kids were young we could have really done with GP help, but there were very much (as is most of mumsnet!) of the school off thinking ‘we’re done raising kids’. I coped, I raised children and I knew it was my responsibility... but I’ll admit I had some
Unvoiced resentment. DH and I had similar jobs to them, but a higher level, but we never had been able to access the housing etc they had due to the much higher childcare and housing costs. They’ve lived nearby in great affluence whilst their grandchildren were wearing second hand, a bit overcrowded etc. Obviously not their problem, but on the flip side they had great capacity to help and didn’t chose to exercise it. They probably spent 6k-12k on holidays a year, whereas 1k for us would have meant for example being able to run a car.

They didn’t offer childcare bar very very occasional inconvenient seeings, for example 1-2pm on Saturday, wanting them dropped off and at a time of day with heavy traffic (turning an 8min drive into a 40min) and meaning there was no time to do anything else. I remember an occasion my son had a last minute amazing opportunity and they couldn’t help by watching his sister (I later found out it was because she wanted to go and see a film at the cinema, 15 min walk away and on for months multiple times a day). They retired pre 60 with big lump sums and pensions, very active and able. No issue with health.

I left them to it, never commented, it’s their life. But I’ll admit I was underneath jealous of every friend who seemed to have GP helping. BUT they are now older, they are needing support and I’m not feeling at all warm in rearranging my life to give it. For example dad can’t drive right now, temporary due to an OP, and he wants hospital lifts. I feel like saying ‘get a cab’ because of all the times I wished for help. It’s hugely local, and I being petty? Or have others felt like this. In the long run, although I get on with them, I don’t feel like every offering to let them move in. They didn’t help their parents (who did offer childcare). I guess I feel a bit heartless but a bit ‘you made your bed, now lie in it’. Being nice I think, we’ll they obviously raised me as a child, but then on the other hand I think their expectations were that links stopped at 18. I don’t dislike them, but I don’t feel hugely bonded to them either and more like people not related that get on

mothersmatter
Im confused -you say on one hand that you worked hard to be financially stable but you have no pension at 56
You spent it on your DC education?
How is that their fault ?
You dont have any contact with your 20 year old DC?
You sound like you are blaming them for your poor decisions .

I get it. Not from a helping with grandchildren POV as the PILs were actually pretty good at it when they were younger and able, but I do resent them for essentially ruining dh’s relationship w his extended family due to MIL falling out w her sisters before I was on the scene 25+ years ago. Some of it has been rectified - but the damage was done. Now there’s some relationship MIL acts like nothing ever happened. Odd. Dh and his bro (even more) bend over backwards to help etc when I think it’s sometimes OTT, but I suppose it’s easy to see that from the outside (even dh said the other day his DM expected too much sometimes - I just hmm’d agreement).

My parents died before DCs came along but I know my mum would have been hands on, while still living her own life (and she was always generous with money for me so wouldn’t have let anyone struggle).

I think we have our own narratives between the generations, my mum for example talks about high mortgage rates and childcare. I once actually sat down and broke it down. Childcare for her was extortionate, for 3 children at the highest point she ever paid it was 50% of her take home half way up the pay scale. For me it was 110% of my income for 2 and I was in the same job higher on the pay scale. Again relative to wages in the same job her mortgage had a higher % interest, but for me the house price was so much greater than my annual income I actually paid a far higher % of my take home pay on one (we both have higher earnings husbands, if you’re thinking my maths doesn’t add up. I’m just using our relative pay bands in the same job as a comparison).

So her narrative- I worked hard and had huge % mortgage rates in my generation! I worked my bit.

Mine: I work hard. Both childcare and mortgage payments are a greater % of our income by far. House prices are many times my salary.

It’s easy to compare as we live close to each other, in the same job which has clear pay grades.

I do think baby-boomers can get caught up in the mortgage rate stuff/ it was so hard without really looking at how it is now. How many more times a salary a house is, that childcare costs for one in London are a salary in themselves. Some even perceive their children as lazy for renting and mucking around, common in London. But then imagine in your twenties flats in the area are starting at 10-20 times your salary. I can see how saving for a deposit feels pointless. My parents would have earned around 30k between them, buying a large house for 80k. A flat would have been far less

This isn’t about who’s right/ wrong or saying baby boomers are bad. But among the middle class baby boomers I often encounter a bit of detachment from reality for people in their child raising years now.

This isn’t a comment about helping or not, just reflecting on some of the replies on here.

DontdoitDoris

Not having a pension does not have to be as a direct result of spending money on DC’s education! There can be another factor - such as being a carer! Any parent, who cannot work due to having a disabled DC with numerous appointments and where childcare does not exist, will only get the state pension!

I was referring to mother saying that she had worked hard for financial stability yet had no pension.
The 2 things seem contradictory.
Im fully aware why others may not have a pension but that doesnt seem to be the case here if large sums have been spent on private education.

keeg your observations about baby boomers' knowledge of and attitudes to the plight of the younger generation in regard to house purchase has not been my experience at all.

We baby boomers are only too well aware of the horrendous rises in house prices and how many multiples of income a modest 1st time buyer property now costs. Many (most) younger people simply cannot afford to buy a home nowadays without extra assistance from older family members who were so fortunate to have benefited unwittingly from the economic circumstances of the time. So, those among us who are fortunate enough to be able to help financially, do.

The people I feel so sorry for are those young people whose family is unable or unwilling to help them.

I realise that in helping our children, we may be inadvertently widening the gap between have and have not. It's a painful dilemma. If no parents helped their children buy homes, maybe prices would fall? But being realistic, what parent, if they have the means to help, is going to stand by and watch their own child struggle? I know I couldn't.

Interesting that this seems to have turned into a debate about which generation has it the hardest! And that anyone would actually spend time calculating for comparison.

Every generation has its challenges. For mine it was no childcare so women stopped work until their children started school, high interest on our mortgages, lower pay for women as the norm, no maternity pay. I’m delighted today’s generations don’t have to deal with this but another set of issues has arisen to replace them.

My retirement has come after a working life spanning 47 years, many of them as a higher rate tax payer in which I’ve paid for other people’s maternity pay, tax credits and subsidised childcare. I don’t begrudge that at all. But I have earned the luxuries for which the pensions I’ve paid for all my life pay and the time to enjoy them. It’s very sad to see people in the hardship years - which everyone has with small children - resent those who are now reaping the benefit of a life time of hard work.

I think it always comes down to the individual rather than the generation. You get kind and generous individuals and selfish, self serving individuals within every age group. Can we stop the generalisations?

The baby boomers have been extremely fortunate in terms of the huge rise in property prices during their lifetime that has led to (some of) them accumulating large assets. That has been due to luck rather than hard work. My parent's house, for example, has gone up about 6 times in value. It's a beautiful, detached house in an expensive area. They bought (with some help from one side of the family) on one income and continued to be a one income family (by choice rather than necessity). Neither parent has ever commented on how hard it must be for us to buy property, etc. I think they assume that because we both work and have a better household salary that we don't have any trouble. I have no expectation at all that they give us any money and would rather they saved it for care needs in the future. What I have been upset by is a lack of interest in me, DH and the children, coldness over many years and an unwillingness to help on a few rare occasions when we really needed support.

It’s very sad to see people in the hardship years - which everyone has with small children - resent those who are now reaping the benefit of a life time of hard work.

They resent it because they are probably not going to "reap the benefit" in the way you have been able to. Whether or not the "hardship years" are similar is debatable considering that housing costs are much higher than 20 or 30 years ago and regardless they don't have a long retirement to look forward to as you do.

It is inevitable that some generations are better off than others so to suggest that they are all the same is a bit naive. Until recently, younger people generally could look forward to a relatively higher standard of living than their parents but this has changed and the fact that it isn't appreciated by some people (including you it seems) just adds to the resentment, I think.

My standard of living was considerably lower than my parents’ ever was during the hardship years. There were times when I had to choose between a pint of milk and a loaf of bread - fortunately a friend was in the same predicament and we pooled.

Yes, housing costs are higher but, as I’ve already pointed out, there were no mechanisms that allowed most women to work so for parents of children below school age, one income was the norm. This is no longer the case.

I have sympathy with the issues young families have now but what am I supposed to do about it? I can’t change my date of birth and it’s completely irrational to pillory an entire generation because they were born when they were.

@whatlineisthatanyway you rightly say stop generalising then make the sweeping statement that all baby boomers have made money from increases in property prices. I'm a baby boomer who hasn't. I will be working until state retirement age at 67 and my children have got on the property ladder with no financial help from me. Not every baby boomer is rolling in money and retires early just like not every younger person dislikes and resents their parents.

I suppose one person's hardship years are another person's way of life

They’re everyone’s way of life while they’re happening.

Also when I got a mortgage nearly 30 years ago I had zilch in the bank but got a 100% mortgage which had my lawyers fees etc lumped into. That's impossible now. I think many people in their 50s and 60s forget this. Sure I only had 12 weeks maternity but I bought a home at 23. The younger generation have it much much harder and anyone who can help their kids but choose not to are the lowest of the low to me.

Sorry what I meant that to mean was one person's hardship years are another person's way of life, for all their life

You are absolutely right ooooohbetty. I did put 'some of' in brackets but perhaps it wasn't clear enough. I'm sorry that you haven't been able to benefit as some other have.

'The baby boomers have been extremely fortunate in terms of the huge rise in property prices during their lifetime that has led to (some of) them accumulating large assets.'

alsohuman- even on one income housing costs were, relatively speaking, more affordable than they are now. Of course, there are some other advantages for today's workers, millennials, current < 18 year olds, etc

It’s not that we forget it, everyone’s experience is different. I was 38 and a single parent before I could afford to buy a house, had to take out a loan for the deposit and say I wanted the money for a car.

Yeah sure all baby boomers have had a brilliant time.
Lets ignore that lesbian and gay people used to legally be sacked for that if their employer found out they were disabled. And plenty were put in mental hospitals to be cured.
Lets forget that for many kids with a disability that meant having a very poor education.
Lets forget that for many women abused by their husbands there was nowhere to escape to and relatives would rarely help.
etc etc.

What you are talking about here are those who are more privileged anyway. If you are disabled, lesbian gay, or in abusive relationship, you are much better off than for a similar baby boomer.

It bloody annoys me that their is a collective failure to recognise what many people actually went through in the recent past.

When I got my mortgage my manager gave me a letter saying I earned much more than I did. I don't know if you'd get away with that now.

My standard of living was considerably lower than my parents’ ever was during the hardship years. There were times when I had to choose between a pint of milk and a loaf of bread - fortunately a friend was in the same predicament and we pooled.

That's just an n of 1 and maybe because you didn't have such a good job or were single. In general the babyboomers were much better of than their parents generation during the "hardship" years and have continued to be better off. In addition the older ones have the same retirement age as their parents despite having a much higher life expectancy ie. a longer retirement.

Yes, housing costs are higher but, as I’ve already pointed out, there were no mechanisms that allowed most women to work so for parents of children below school age, one income was the norm. This is no longer the case.

There is childcare available but it is very expensive often takes out a whole persons wage. i.e. they are no better off financially than they would be on one income but in contrast to your generation housing costs are much higher.

I have sympathy with the issues young families have now but what am I supposed to do about it? I can’t change my date of birth and it’s completely irrational to pillory an entire generation because they were born when they were.

You can't change your date of birth but you can appreciate the advantages it has given you and that younger people don't have those advantages. If you have children who are not in such a good position don't do as OPs parents have done and expect them not to resent you.

You definitely wouldn’t get away with it now. There were no credit checks either.

Very good point @claire.

Yeah sure all baby boomers have had a brilliant time.

Obviously not everyone did. Those that did benefit though can't accept younger people not to resent them if they do as OP's parents have done.

accept expect

Just to clarify my comparison, I can unusually compare very well as we have the same jobs, housing area etc and no. if children as my parents. So it’s unusually easy for direct comparison.

I have a disabled child, I would say it’s easier now. The special schools are t there and my child is completely outside the school system now. ‘Budgets’ and ‘austerity’ have mean t she is not educated by the state. And yes, I’ve tried. So there’s always factors, disability, single mothers etc.... I’m comparing to an average that we both fit.

I’d also disagree with the staying at home thing for women, I’ve seen in my area a huge rise in women at home due to childcare cost. For example a nursery place here averages £1200 a month, wrap round after school care £25 a day. For one in nursery and one in wrap round you’re looking at nearly 2k a month. Women I know don’t warn that, plus often work outside 8-5 so pay even more. It’s really hard for many women on average salaries to earn enough, especially with commuting, that they even earn enough to pay to work. I was out
Of work when I moved boroughs with an SEN child and an EHCP took 40 weeks to go through and for her to get a school place (my old area didn’t use one for special school when the new one did).

I think people here there’s ‘free childcare on the news etc, but the reality is complex

How are you feeling about everything now OP? X