How is Great Britain looking from abroad?

[longwayoff]

I've seen various remarks that other countries are confused by our current situation, although surely Ukraine's running it close. Any comments from outside UK mumsnetters?

You really don't know what you are talking about.

All the usual leaver half baked propaganda claptrap

From the same link as the report on President Macron's speech;

One reason for the move is that Brexit will blow a hole of some €12 billion to €13 billion in the EU’s annual revenue, leaving France as the second-biggest net contributor to Brussels’ coffers after Germany.

The French government said in a memorandum to the European Commission in December that the EU27 could not go on spending as much in the seven-year budget period starting in 2021 as the EU28 did before Britain’s impending departure.

"One reason for the move is that Brexit will blow a hole of some €12 billion to €13 billion in the EU’s annual revenue, leaving France as the second-biggest net contributor to Brussels’ coffers after Germany. "

Yes, but that doesn't refer to NET contribution does it. The UK NET contribution in Euros is about 8.9 bn euros, which is 6.5%.

France is the second biggest contributor nominally already. The UK is the second biggest net, but about 9th per capita.

Institute for Government;
Why is EU agriculture policy controversial in the UK?

The UK gets much less from the CAP than it contributes.

"The French government said in a memorandum to the European Commission in December that the EU27 could not go on spending as much in the seven-year budget period starting in 2021 as the EU28 did before Britain’s impending departure."

Well this is true as the UK is a net contributor, it doesn't mean that the EU can't get by without our money though as you are implying.

BTW, even out net contribution without taking off EU money spent in the UK is 8.8% of the budget.

"The UK gets much less from the CAP than it contributes."

The UK is a net contributor, so it gets less out than it contributes net overall. But it gets the rebate because it benefits significantly less from the CAP.

I love it that you don't really understand all of this, I know you are scurrying around for something to C and P to prove your point too.

I also love that you make the discussion all about costs, but fail to include benefits. So a net contribution of 0.7% of public spending for 4-5% of GDP?

Sounds like the benefits out weigh the costs.

Well this is true as the UK is a net contributor, it doesn't mean that the EU can't get by without our money though as you are implying.

I didn't say they couldn't get by - I said they couldn't afford the CAP in it's present form.

The UK NET contribution in Euros is about 8.9 bn

Although you have forgotten about the billions of top-up funding for various EU projects - which are not included in the EU contribution figures. David Cameron's government was constantly complaining about the cost of these projects (and the extra funding required) - but the UK was outvoted by the other member states.

No the top up funding is included in the net contribution calculations.

Ironically it was the UK that pushed through the changes in the way contributions were calculated ( taking into account the informal economy), and therefore got billed more than it had expected.

Something else you don't understand?

The CAP was always up for renegotiation in 2020, and reforms have been suggested prior to the 2016 referendum. Of course the UK could have influenced those reforms, and has done in the past.

"You know the bit where you admitted you didn’t engage with the arguments of Remainers once they started showing themselves to be uncivil meanies"

-alleging that, doesn't make it true. All you have to do ElionEile, is admit that you are uncivil and don't debate very respectfully. Why not? Why are you so rage filled and disrespectful?

"And then after this you state that you, as a leaver, don't actually want WTO." - I am not a Leaver. I was genuinely trying to state what Brexit is actually about.

You are both actually proving my point, that Remainers are not conducting themselves in the best and most respectful way they could. You are shooting yourselves in the foot.

" Remainers are not conducting themselves in the best and most respectful way they could."

Sweeping generalisation, I wouldn't say leave many voters here have either, calling others traitors, quislings, cowards, sheeple, telling people to go live in the EU etc.

Oh and its not disrespectful to call out poorly informed points accurately.

@ScreamingLadySutch I'm not a Remainer (nor a Leaver nor anything else as I am not British nor living in the UK) so your insults to me are moot. I am an outsider looking on in horror as the UK government toys with imploding their own country and does its best to hold my country's stability to ransom. I feel nothing but empathy for people in the UK who didn't want this but it is an absolute disgrace.

The problem I think with your posts, ladysutch, and I don't consider this disrespectful to point out, is that you don't debate. You engage in pointless rhetoric, around and around, never holding firm to your statements but backtracking and accusing posters of being mean and not holding themselves to a high standard instead of addressing the points that they have made. You are the epitome of a typical Leave voter.

I work for a scientific company. We are British but have formal partners that we work with globally. I have had colleagues in countries like Singapore asking me to explain Brexit as they have assumed that they don't really understand what is going on - that there is some crucial point they are missing that would explain why our Government and MPS are acting the way they are. When I explain the chaos is about politics and people voting for something that was not actually possible, they are shocked.

Brexit has already affected us. Our formal partners do not want to work with us until Brexit is sorted out - joint projects are always long term and require sometimes considerable investment. So they want to know the legal framework before working with us. This means we have basically spent the last year doing "housekeeping" kind of research and development. The kind of thing that is useful, but no one had time to do in the past. But by 2021 we will have run out of this and need to be working with global partners again.This means by this summer we need to be developing proposals for joint work.

I suspect most of the public have no idea how long the lead in time is for some of this work. And yes our niche industry could be screwed if Brexit is a mess. This is happening ironically at a point in time when international interest in our industry has expanded and we should be expanding rapidly.

BorisBogtrotter
No the top up funding is included in the net contribution calculations. The UK NET contribution in Euros is about 8.9 bn
Something else you don't understand?

These figures are perfectly easy to understand:

The net figures–which take into account the UK’s rebate–show the UK’s contribution to the EU was £2.7bn in 2008, rising to £3.8bn in 2009, £7.2bn in 2010, £7.5bn in 2011, £8.5bn in 2012 and £11.3bn in 2013.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/31/britain-eu-contribution-rise-quadruple-cameron

The European Development Fund is outside of the EU Budget of course;

The EDF is outside the EU Budget and the UK contributes to the fund.

The UK will remain part of the EDF until the close of the 11th EDF fund, which runs between 2014 and 2020.

Despite being outside the EU budget, the EDF remains the largest geographic instrument for development cooperation managed by the Commission.Its total resources for 2014-20 amount to more than €30.5 billion.

With contributions worth more than €50 billion a year (2012), the European Union (EU) and its Member States are jointly the first donor of Official Development Assistance (ODA) in the world.

Six EU countries (Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands) provide more than three quarters of the total in absolute terms.

Ironically it was the UK that pushed through the changes in the way contributions were calculated ( taking into account the informal economy), and therefore got billed more than it had expected.

An own goal then.

"The net figures–which take into account the UK’s rebate–show the UK’s contribution to the EU was £2.7bn in 2008, rising to £3.8bn in 2009, £7.2bn in 2010, £7.5bn in 2011, £8.5bn in 2012 and £11.3bn in 2013."

These figures don't include public projects funded by the EU in the UK, or the grants to private companies.

See again your copy and paste skills show that you don't actually understand what you are talking about.

So yes the figures are perfectly easy to understand, if you actually know what you are talking about and not just C and P ing.

BorisBogtrotter
And what qualifies you?
Do you work for the EU Commission Boris?

The title of this thread is;
How is Great Britain looking from abroad?

And what nationality are you BorisBogtrotter?

It has rather morphed into something else though hasn't it......

The usual Leavers are thick, Remainers are intelligent.

That's not the question that was asked you thick bints!!!!!

"And what qualifies you? "

An ability to understand the figures, a quick look at the fullfact or any other site that deals with the net contribution would explain, but you haven't C and Pd them because it shows just how small the net contribution is.

But I'll be patient and explain it to you.

The net contribution figures you are quoting are UK contribution once the rebate has been removed. However this doesn't really represent the net contribution because it also doesn't include the money spent by the EU ( which also never actually leaves the UK but this is more complex) in the UK.

Once all the money spent in the UK is removed our net contribution, even in the years where we have contributed most highly, has been about 5/6% of the entire EU budget.

BorisBogtrotter
But I'll be patient and explain it to you.

But what nationality are you Boris?

This site actually gives the reality.

fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

What nationality am I?

That doesn't actually matter does it?

I live in Germany. Most of my friends and colleagues are bemused by events. Fellow Brits tend to roll their eyes.
There have been some interesting suggestions that the PM is going on a roundabout way to cancel Brexit altogether.
Most people here do not want the UK to leave, it does impact the EU in a big way, too.
Personally I believe the whole thing has totally backfired. Even after 3 years there are still no tangible plans about what is to happen. I didn't get much of the actual pre-referendum campaigning, but I don't know how anyone could have believed the Brexiteers' arguments, which appeared to have had no basis in fact.
On a more personal note I find the tv and news reports about "life" in the UK very worrying and quite scary. I suppose I am the 2019 equivalent of someone living in East Germany in the 1970s and 1980s watching western news reports about the RAF (Red Army Faction), which made it look as if people were being assassinated every day and main stations were the targets of random bombings.

What nationality am I?
That doesn't actually matter does it?

It obviously matters to you not to answer the question.

The EU arestreamlining the budget because we are leaving;

COMMUNICATION FROM THE EU COMMISSION 2018
A Modern Budget for a Union that Protects, Empowers and Defends

The Multiannual Financial Framework for 2021-2027

The next such budget, starting on 1 January 2021, will be the first for the European Union of 27

The proposals also respond in a realistic and balanced way to the budgetary consequences of the withdrawal of the United Kingdom.

The departure of an important contributor to the EU budget will have a financial impact and the future Financial Framework must take account of that.

Maintaining a level of support that matches our ambitions across the priority areas will require additional contributions from all Member States

In parallel, no effort must be spared to make the EU budget more efficient.

The Commission is proposing savings in some of the main spending areas and reforms across the budget to make it more streamlined and to get the most from every euro.

Recent experience has laid bare some weaknesses in the current framework. Despite some improvements, the EU budget is still too rigid.

Funds are spread over too many programmes and instruments, both within and outside the budget.

More can be done to modernise and simplify the two biggest spending blocks in the budget, the Common Agricultural Policy and Cohesion Policy.

The Commission proposes to reduce the number of programmes by more than a third

and radically streamlining the use of financial instruments.

Less red tape for beneficiaries.

The Commission proposes to make rules more coherent on the basis of a single rule book. This will drastically reduce the administrative burden for beneficiaries and managing authorities.

It's a pity they didn't do some of this sooner.