How is Great Britain looking from abroad?

[longwayoff]

I've seen various remarks that other countries are confused by our current situation, although surely Ukraine's running it close. Any comments from outside UK mumsnetters?

I live in Switzerland.

It gets mentioned a lot. Everyone asks me what my country is doing.

I just shake my head and shrug my shoulders.

scaryteacher
A supranational organisation (that has no real reason to be in existence if you think about it) I cannot live with.

But if you are not contemplating going it alone in terms of trade (please assure me this is not your ideal?) then you are looking at trade deals with other countries. The two that immediately spring to mind, China and the US, both unabashedly use trading relationships as instruments of foreign policy. The US in particular has wielded trade as a blunt instrument to cudgel foes and allies alike and China has similar aims though with different strategies. Both of these countries will enjoy a very strong advantage against the UK across the negotiation table. Good luck with sovereignty when negotiation day comes round.

that has no real reason to be in existence if you think about it
The EU currently and as discussed in the future have no real reason to be in existence?
The reason for the existence of the EU is to guarantee the future of Europe and all her people against any threat.

Of course, if you identify as a proto-American and are happy to one day enjoy an economy the size of Puerto Rico, and status akin to that of Puerto Rico too, in relation to the US, then that statement makes complete sense.

Nobody with a realistic idea of what the UK faces all alone against the behemoths of trade would ever make a statement like yours. The idea that gentlemanly dealings lie ahead with the US is an unshakeable conceit of Brexiters but there is no amount of toadying to America that will stop American hedge funds from taking their knives to British public assets.

MissConduct, your statement on how trade deals become law is lacking in detail and nuance.

The legislative process involved in trade deals allows Congress an opportunity to set the parameters of negotiation for the Executive even while at the same time delegating to the Executive the lead role in trade agreements.

In particular, the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee have a prominent collaborative and often confrontational role through prior contact with the Executive and TR, and through mock 'mark ups' once a deal is signed but before the necessary legislation to integrate the new deal into US law is presented to the House and Senate.

Ahead of any trade negotiation, all interested parties can lobby the Trade Representative and of course the President, as well as members of the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee. This includes the Friends of Ireland (US Congress) and other Irish lobbying organisations, all of whom are highly integrated with the Irish government. Sinn Fein also has a presence in Washington.

All in all, the chances of the GFA and associated issues being on the radar of an American trade delegation meeting a UK trade delegation might be quite high.

I just keep wondering how in Gods name you won two world wars...

And this is why a family member of mine voted leave. Germany couldn't beat us in two world wars, so now they're using the EU to do it

Fortunately I have taken on DH's nationality so no worries for me or my DC. Disbelief, shock, incredulity at the imbecility of the government seem to be the most common reactions along with the explanation that it's down to the typical arrogance of the UK.

Good summary of the situation from an American journalist in the NY times.

www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/opinion/brexit-news.html

Digitisation means the world is more interdependent than ever. Most big issues - climate change, trade regulations etc have to be decided on a global basis. Unless you're America, India, China or India your voice won't be listened to unless you're part of a more powerful conglomeration. Trump and Putin don't want stability in Europe, although Trump's view is at odds even with most of his advisers.

I feel sad and worried for my British friends. I feel afraid for their retirements and disappointed for their kids' futures. On the other hand, it makes me feel a little less stupid about living in a country that had a disastrous election which resulted in electing that Fu$#)(&)*ing idiot Trump.

Perfectly and succinctly put Dippy. Imagine England, together with Wales, (Scotl and and Ireland having left the Union) scrabbling for crumbs where they can be found against huge blocs. Brexit is madness. Someone put something in the water supply to send us all nuts I think.

www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/opinion/brexit-news.html

What an insightful article. I’m more depressed that ever. What has the UK done to itself?

Every leaver should read this. They won’t obviously.

"A supranational organisation (that has no real reason to be in existence if you think about it) I cannot live with."

Yet you have repeatedly posted in the past that your DH works for NATO?

Are you proposing we leave all supernational organisations? The WTO, the UN, the European Council and many more?

No?

Didn't think so. Thus your point ( as ever ) is null and void.

Nice to see copy and paste clav linking to the ever pro brexit Telegraph, I do wonder why its tax avoiding non dom owners might be pro brexit.

This bit in that article is a bit off.

"I understand the grievances of many of those who voted to leave the E.U. For starters, they felt swamped by E.U. immigrants. (The E.U. should have protected the U.K. from that surge; that was German and French foolishness.) There are reportedly some 300,000 French citizens living in London, which would make it one of the biggest French cities in the world. I had a drink with a member of Parliament in the bar in the House of Commons on Tuesday, and as we sat down he whispered to me that “not a single person working in this whole building is British.”

"The E.U. should have protected the U.K. from that surge; that was German and French foolishness."

No this was in the UK's power all along, they chose not to. Even then its been catagorically proved that all of the problems laid at the door of immigration are not actually to do with immigration. If you want to have a look go read the MAC report.

I'm referring to the language. It's unhelpful and echoes Cameron's repugnant "swarmes"..

" We do have an agreement in place to not have to contribute again, but in a crisis, would that hold up?"

PROJECT FEAR!

Gosh that felt good. Of course it would uphold, its under international law.

Love how you are hypocritical about control of our finances, yet also pro NATO and Trump, and have in the past made remarks about other countries "owing" NATO, isn't the NATO 2% of GDP on defence "control", or is that different because you say it is?

Copy and paste Clav, I notice how yet again you failed to C and P all of the source yet again because it disproves you.,

"Class 1 bananas can have "slight defects of shape" and Class 2 bananas full-on "defects of shape"."

Meaning that the EU merely regulate what can be classed as a Class 1 or 2 banana, meaning we know what we are buying and selling.

Oh such a terrible thing.

Being honest, Britain is the biggest joke the world over ... JOKE of a nation. My sympathies are with the remainers who don't deserve this

ODFOD we are not a joke and I, a passionate remainer, neither want nor need your sympathy.

@TheHumbleHawthorn - ODFOD we are not a joke

Whether you like it are not, you are. I keep getting memes and jokes about brexit from people. Admittedly, most of us can distinguish between your government, who are a total joke, and the country as a whole, but there is a contingent of the country who are also seen as a joke.

@SwedishEdith - I had a drink with a member of Parliament in the bar in the House of Commons on Tuesday, and as we sat down he whispered to me that “not a single person working in this whole building is British.”

Was the MP not British or was he claiming that he doesn't do any work?

@longwayoff - Imagine England, together with Wales, (Scotl and and Ireland having left the Union

Ireland is not in the union. Hasn't been for 100 years.

Ireland aren’t in your union...

InionEile
why the UK has a different experience of that framework due to the fact that it does not get as much CAP money as other EU countries due to the rebate negotiated by Thatcher in the 80s.

I also referenced a speech made last year by President Macron of France - who said it was, high time to review “without taboos” whether the Common Agricultural Policy was still fit for purpose, saying he was not convinced it was.

He also said that French farmers found the system horribly bureaucratic and unsatisfactory. Not just UK farmers then.

BorisBogtrotter
Copy and paste Clav, I notice how yet again you failed to C and P all of the source yet again because it disproves you.
"Class 1 bananas can have "slight defects of shape" and Class 2 bananas full-on "defects of shape".

You missed some out as well;

In 2011 this regulation and other relevant rules were brought together for the sake of clarity under a single implementing regulation (1333/2011), and in 2013 a further change simplified reporting requirements (implementing regulation 565/2013).

Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) No 1333/2011 of 19 December 2011 laying down marketing standards for bananas, rules on the verification of compliance with those marketing standards and requirements for notifications in the banana sector.Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) No 565/2013 of 18 June 2013 amending Regulations (EC) No 1731/2006, (EC) No 273/2008, (EC) No 566/2008, (EC) No 867/2008, (EC) No 606/2009, and Implementing Regulations (EU) No 543/2011 and (EU) No 1333/2011 as regards the notification obligations within the common organisation of agricultural markets and repealing Regulation (EC) No 491/2007.

As simple as that.

I didn't miss anything out that was of importance, you deliberately did.

All products ( agricultural or not) have standards and classifications, and did so before the EU. This meant it was clear what quality of goods people were getting.

Your post saying I missed stuff out doesn't correct my point, mine corrected yours.

Also the stuff about the CAP, if you are so well versed in it you would know that the CAP is up for renegotiation in 2020, and its agreed by the member states.

Your implication that it is forced upon states by the EU is erroneous, as usual.

Update:

The European Parliament have been in touch to clarify that EU regulation 1333/2011 has now replaced the old regulation 2257/94.Whilst the numbers are different, the banana rules are the same, and the EU commission still says that bananas must be ‘free from abnormal curvature’.

What’s more, the new regulation now contains 4,465 words–more than twice as many as the repealed edict.

BorisBogtrotter; Also the stuff about the CAP, if you are so well versed in it you would know that the CAP is up for renegotiation in 2020, and its agreed by the member states.

The EU referendum took place in 2016.

The CAP is up for renegotiation in 2020 - because the UK (together with all our financial contributions to the CAP) are leaving the EU.

The other member states cannot afford the present system of CAP without UK funding!

"The CAP is up for renegotiation in 2020 - because the UK (together with all our financial contributions to the CAP) are leaving the EU. "

Actually not, 2020 is the end of the EU 2014-2020 spending round and all contributions, rebates, and spending practices are up for renegotiation.

"The other member states cannot afford the present system of CAP without UK funding!"

Again incorrect, the net contribution of the UK to the EU budget is 5% of the entire budget.

You really don't know what you are talking about.