6 million and still rising . . . Time to revoke?

[longwayoff]

O please lets do that. Revoke, rethink and re- refer.

6 million is no way near enough to represent a change in public opinion. At the moment all it's doing is bolstering the leave vote. It needs to get to about 17.5 million to mean something.

Logic would suggest that they have changed their minds.

Logic would suggest you are severely lacking in that department.

There's another petition to leave the EU with no deal on April 12. Currently with 126, 304 signatories. Perhaps you would like to apply your sparkling logic to that one.

PermanentlyExhausted

I had no idea! Going to look for that petition now and sign it.

I wish leavers were more vocal. I live far away and don't hear about stuff as much.

Pregnant Sea. Sign if you want but there's really no point. Government are not going to be persuaded by some corrupt petition.

Leave is the default position because Leave is the majority outcome of the UK votes in the Government run referendum. 17.4m of the UK's voting population voted to leave. 6m have signed some phony online petition. There's no way the Government will choose 6m phony signatures over 17.4 m valid votes.

PennyArcade I have signed it now but I agree with you. I'm quite pissed off that the public feel they have to set up petitions to help make decisions for the government. It's ridiculous. They've royally cocked everything up and let us all down.

See, I've been against a second vote as a rule because I think it sets a dangerous precedent.

On the other hand, looking at that petition, I think sod it.

There was someone on here yesterday bleating on about signing it for her bump.

How many of those signatures represent eligible voters? Even if it's all 6 million, which we know it's not, Remain would be wiped out a second referendum.

Pathetic.

There's no need to sign your posts buddy.

I’m a firm remainer. But 6 million is nothing.

This. Also, a petition is not a referendum.

If we need to repeat the referendum and someone can come up with a valid reason to do so, let's do that.

You CANNOT possibly revoke on the basis of a petition. Only a political illiterate would think that's a viable course of action.

Much though I want to keep my EU passport, I don't want to live with the consequences of referenda decisions being disregarded by the government.

The situation we are now in bears no resemblance to what people thought they were voting for. This chaos couldn't have been predicted by the vast majority of voters

That's why there's an argument for putting all of last week's "indicative vote" options to a Democratic National vote.

I think that's the way out of this mess.

I think that's a terrible idea to be honest, too many options and an electorate too ill-informed. I also think it'd be woefully irresponsible to have options that have been comprehensively rejected by parliament (No Deal being the big one) on the ballot paper.

I'd go for Remain vs whatever wins in a runoff between TMs Deal and the winner of tomorrow's indicative votes.

You CANNOT possibly revoke on the basis of a petition. Only a political illiterate would think that's a viable course of action.

You are talking to the illitetate here though! They will never understand. Never!

You are talking to the illitetate here though!

illitetate

Sweet, sweet irony.

Part of me thinks this was the plan all along - to make such a mess of the negotiations that the only option left was to revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

I agree.

Part of me thinks this was the plan all along - to make such a mess of the negotiations that the only option left was to revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU

The brexiteers were put in charge at the start. Boris, David Davis - remember....... They fucked it up. But that doesn’t fit with your narrative I guess.

Iggly

All that really implies is that the strength of feeling was never taken that seriously in the first place, which takes us back to politicians not listening to people.

You are talking to the illitetate here though! They will never understand. Never!

Well, I'd have said that much was obvious.

People on here are equating an online petition with a national referendum, spouting such gubbins as it needing to reach 17.5 million signatures to mean anything, or saying that Parliament shouldn't revoke Article 50 on the basis of a petition. Honestly, if you feel the need to write that, you are the politically illiterate.

Iggly yes they fucked it up, the cynic in me says that they were deliberately put in charge knowing that they would do exactly that as they are so woefully incompetent.

Brexiteer MPs couldn't even agree with each other what they wanted.

They should just own it and say this is all way above our pay grade, we are not capable.

If, as I suspect, this was the strategy now is the time to acknowledge their failure and end this farce. No-one is benefiting from this mess.

6,037,591 And rising

Being debated

Honestly, if you feel the need to write that, you are the politically illiterate.

What is politically illiterate is pretending we should govern by populists slacktivism that is an online petition with known issues of being able to gain the system, whilst unironically saying the other side had outside intereference and was influenced by paid social media ads.

It higlights the shit show it is, and no side is coming up smelling or roses.

What is politically illiterate is pretending we should govern by populists slacktivism that is an online petition

Has anyone actually said that?

Or have lots and lots of posters explained, slowly and in detail that the petition is a way of influencing the government and demonstrating strength of public feeling. Several posters have explicitly said a petition should in no way be treated as a referendum.

The petition is a way ordinary people can engage with the political process.

We could sling snarky, cynical comments around or we could engage with the process, march, send letters, debate and yes, sign petitions.

This is not governance though. Obviously.

Has anyone actually said that?

Yes the poster I was highlighting with the following comment.

People on here are equating an online petition with a national referendum, spouting such gubbins as it needing to reach 17.5 million signatures to mean anything

Or have lots and lots of posters explained, slowly and in detail that the petition is a way of influencing the government and demonstrating strength of public feeling.

So lots have posters have slowly jumped through hoops to slowly explain how an online petition that is open to abuse is somehow not a populist form of slacktivism and we should base our governmental leadership based on it, whilst also holding the narrative of other forces playing dirty tricks online.

I would argue the toss if you had any sense of irony, but I suspect you are trying to be serious so it's a lost cause.

an online petition that is open to abuse is somehow not a populist form of slacktivism and we should base our governmental leadership based on it

As far as I can see no one has said we should base decisions on a petition. The petition should certainly play into government decision making and influence, if not determine, how people vote.

Terms like 'slacktivism' really piss me off. Sneering at people for expressing opinions and saying what they think. Many leave voters say they felt voice less and disenfranchised. Perhaps these people were dismissed and belittled for expressing their opinions by cynics.

We need to encourage more people to get involved, discuss and debate not dismiss them and make vaguely insulting comments like: "I would argue the toss if you had any sense of irony, but I suspect you are trying to be serious so it's a lost cause" without actually addressing the issue.

Ten times more people have voted to revoke than leave with no deal on the petitions site

Logic would suggest that they have changed their minds

Logic would suggests that they haven't signed the petition, it would be very silly to read anything further into it