6 million and still rising . . . Time to revoke?

[longwayoff]

O please lets do that. Revoke, rethink and re- refer.

@PennyArcade when you say "For the hard of thinking...A petition is not a vote" - do you actually mean election?

A vote is a verb that denotes the action in a ballot box, an election or referendum is the process.

As has been said several times (please RTFT before insulting people) on this thread no one thinks the petition is the same as the referendum but it denotes public feeling and reflects public feeling. The petition and the march should not automatically lead to revoke but it should give politicians pause for thought.

You are arguing against yourself. The Leave campaign used illegally mined Facebook data to target voters and cheat the system in what they thought was an undetectable way- social media.

I'm not, it was pointing out the the remain vote also broke election law, use the cached google link if you are having trouble viewing ft articles btw

The facebook situation was used by Obama and Clegg, when you look at the numbers and realise it was targeted is minuscule, that's not to say we need to look at it,

While the petition isn’t a vote it is certainly a gauge of feeling- just as the original ref vote was.

Considering you are boarding on outside interference when its against your personal narrative and champion an online slackativism petition is somewhat telling.

Yes! Revoke!

So what! 17,410,742 voted leave.
Lets just keep voting until you get your way shall we.
You'd love that if the situation was reversed, there would be no end of whining I can imagine.

Here goes, third time lucky. I've asked this twice already. No responses as yet

Would the leavers on here mind taking a couple of minutes explaining how they envision the UK/EU relationship after brexit? Brexit can only be the start of a new relationship between EU/UK, how do you see that going?

Many MPs have changed their minds over the best way forward- even JRM who is now championing the deal that he'd previously slagged off.

The referendum question did not define what Brexit meant. The electorate were told that Canada-plus, Norway-model were a possibility.

I don't think that the petition will change anything but No Deal is not an option - even JRM thinks so and We are running out of time.

If you are a Leaver, would you concede that the quicker that MPs sort out our game plan, the sooner the country can prepare? For Brexit to be successful we need as much preparation time as possible. Instability caused by the Tory leadership (Leavers) is going to fuck things up for everyone else. She promised strong and stable ffs

Random- I'm a Remainer but a lot of talk seems to be about trading with other countries. I assume they think that the EU prevents us from trading with somewhere where as we assume the EU is a massive trading bloc that can get great deals with other massive markets like China and the US?

@Justanotherlurker

Your use of nasty pejoratives to describe anyone who disagrees with you suggests to me that you are quite fixed in your mindset and there’s nothing I can present you with to change your mind.

Just remember that hate is divisive and othering groups of people leads to treating them as subhuman. It’s a slippery slope.

We all need each other if we are going to succeed. We rise and fall as a group.

I don’t hate Leave voters. I’m just disappointed that they were so easily duped and even now the evidence is presented to show how badly vote Leave lies they still can’t admit their mistake.

What kind of country are we going to be if we cannot talk to each other without insults or admit when we’ve gotten things wrong? Stubbornness is not a strength. It is a character flaw.

Here goes, third time lucky. I've asked this twice already. No responses as yet

You're not getting answers as this question has become a meme that if you follow the logical conclusion of remain being more politically aware would understand the scenarios and not trying to play "gotcha" and reducing it along racist lines.

You being a remainer are more intelligent, you should recognise thier argument.

Me, I'm a remainer because I'm right of center, believe in big business and Neolib ideology, i admit the neolib needs to be reigned in somewhat but I fundemently accept thats the way the EU/globalisation is. I can see why the extension of UK politics being london driven scoped even further afield.

This type of question highlights your ignorance than it does the leaver you hope to catch out.

I think revoke would be good. It's unlikely as wed have to admit we were wrong and that requires a degree of maturity that we dont seem to have.

It just seems to me that there has been 3 years to persuade the general public that Brexit is a great idea and if that hasn't been possible in three years then maybe there is something inherently flawed about it.

I think revoke is good both if you are a leaver or remainer.

We gave away all our leverage when we invoked article 50.

Your use of nasty pejoratives to describe anyone who disagrees with you suggests to me that you are quite fixed in your mindset and there’s nothing I can present you with to change your mind.

So no intelligent come back other than my language use..

Just remember that hate is divisive and othering groups of people leads to treating them as subhuman. It’s a slippery slope.

Wasn't it you who tried initially to paint along party lines?

I don’t hate Leave voters. I’m just disappointed that they were so easily duped and even now the evidence is presented to show how badly vote Leave lies they still can’t admit their mistake.

Oh, I'm sure they are grateful of you sympathy, I'm sure all those Cleg and Obama supporters who were targeted by facebook ads are feeling duped as well.

Still well done in proving my point of being childlike trying to pin it down to party political lines, it highlights the more educated side of the remain vote.

Actually Just I’ve had a read around, including the FT link and a few others.

Remain were fined £9,000 for not submitting total invoices for election spending. £8,000 was a fine for the LibDems who had lost some invoices.

Leave were fined £61,000 and two people refered to the police for further investigation for severe breaches of funding law and possible criminal activity.

Not quite the same thing. Both sides used social media but only one side used illegal election funding to pay Cambridge Analytical to target voters on Facebook with racist, scaremongering posts about the EU.

As Friday’s March demonstrated, Vote Leave has stirred up a hornet’s nest of far right sentiment in its bid to win votes. Can the genii be put back in the bottle. I’d be furious if I was a genuine Eurosceptic that I needed the votes of the far right to achieve what I wanted and was now forever associated with them.

Yeah, that reply was pretty nasty.

Care to show the party political lines in what I said.

spoiler I am a floating voter with no party allegiance.

if over half the electorate wants to push on with Brexit at all costs, why aren't millions of them signing a petition to say so since the debate on the revoke petition was announced?

We are leaving. Why would I sign a petition for something that is happening?

BelleSausage thanks for clarifying the details.

Neither side behaved well, Leave was worse.

The referendum result should be voided due to the illegality, not that it has any legal standing anyway.

I think parliament should revoke but would not object to a third referendum.

I think revoke is good both if you are a leaver or remainer.

I think it is but we need to address the situation and be honest of the political union, it would require a shift of the midset that uk politics is london centric though.

We gave away all our leverage when we invoked article 50.

Also true, we should have bargained on no deal being the default

Bull. The petition is an indicator that the claim 'it's what the people want' is an inaccurate assessment although it's clearly what some want. Taken together with the vast amount of evidence of wrongdoing by Leave it is obvious that to go ahead with Brexit without further public consultation is both risky and stupid. Even politicians know this. That's why the loons who will receive most reward and are desperate to push it through at all costs are opposed by those with some conscience. It's a huge fraud being perpetrated on the British people, comically orchestrated by a small wealthy elite who have managed by sleight of hand to persuade half the country that they're fighting on their behalf for the freedom of oppressed Brits. It's like a bloody Monty Python sketch.

Btw Brexit is cost £360 m a week

www.cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-december-2018-towards-relative-decline

orchestrated by a small wealthy elite who have managed by sleight of hand to persuade half the country that they're fighting on their behalf for the freedom of oppressed Brits.

Whilst also remain unironically being led by a wealthy elite and thinking they are really on the side of the working class is also fed by propoganda .

To be in a situation where you are on board with multinational neolibs who would not blink an eye in offshoring jobs is a somewhat left wing idea is why brexit is a shit show.

There is going to be a lot of mental gymnastics being played out in the next GE, all those who have scare mongered GDP during brexit downplay it when the same multinationals are also making the same comments re corbyn etc.

Justanotherlurker likes to accuse people of trying to 'paint along party lines'; I had the same accusation yesterday in a different thread when I had done nothing of the sort. It's just something they like to say.

While the petition isn’t a vote it is certainly a gauge of feeling- just as the original ref vote was. Discount one and you discount the other.

No it isn't it's a slippery slope into online slactavism, social media likes to dictate policies, people are ignoring the 4chan raid on this petition because it suits their narrative whilst be apparently appauled of outside interference, that itself should highlight issues but its the "correct" way so we can just ignore all the murky stuff.

You're not getting answers as this question has become a meme that if you follow the logical conclusion of remain being more politically aware would understand the scenarios and not trying to play "gotcha" and reducing it along racist lines.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this. I'm not playing gotcha, or trying to paint leavers as racists. I just want to know how a sample of leavers see the EU/UK relationship after brexit so I might be able to see common ground.

if over half the electorate wants to push on with Brexit at all costs, why aren't millions of them signing a petition to say so since the debate on the revoke petition was announced?

Or get up a peaceful demonstration with more than we had last weekend to ask that your Brexit isn't denied. How many you need is up to what you believe - I would say you would need a couple of million. Farage's attempt last Friday didn't amount to much and wasn't peaceful either. Can't afford it - get your wealthy chums to dip their pockets or crowd fund it.

No it isn't it's a slippery slope into online slactavism

Ahhhh the arrogance of the young.

Petitions significantly outdate social media. Petitions, letter writing, marches etc have been around for a lot longer than social media.

All of these are informal ways of putting pressure on people in power. Obviously, a petition will not automatically result in a change in policy but it brings the issue to public notice, encourages debate and demonstrates strength of public feeling.

The petition is an indicator of the strength of public feeling, politicians should take this into account when making decisions.