Mil suspicious of my relationship with FIL

[SchoolOfLife2]

Dear all,

I changed username as I’m not sure what responses I will get.

My FIL and I used to know each other before I even met my DH, because he was a long time friend of my dads.. they haven’t been in touch for a while but he does have all those caring fatherly vibes as he literally knew me since I was born.. but lost touch after.

When I got together with DH, I noticed something that made me feel uncomfortable. My MIL behaved extremely protective of FIL Infront of me. When he talks to me she would glare at him, when I talk to him she makes me feel uncomfortable.., this is simply me saying hello how are you ...

She has tried her best to tell me all his flaws and make out that he is a bad man which I refused to give in to ... things like how as soon as he would pick me and DH up from the airport she would say to me ur FIL makes our lives difficult don’t u agree (Infront of him) and knowing her I know she is exaggerating and so I just awkwardly giggled and said “ I see him as a father figure and wouldn’t say that about him, it’s nothing I’ve witnessed” to which she would escalate and look extremely intimidated.

She hasn’t made many inappropriate jokes to my DH about how I’m the only person that “gets his fathers jokes” and how he needs to be careful that I won’t go fancying his father.... she made DH very uncomfortable....

I am now very conscious of what I wear as I constantly feel judged by her... I once asked him if I could join him in the car to go to the market (it was abroad and no public transport) and there was a very weird odd silence in the room as if I had requested something dodgy.... he accepted of course and looked at his wife for approval... MIL said you won’t want to go with him, he will make your shopping trip hell... to which I refused and said no it would be fine as it’s just a 5 min journey and he is like a father figure.

It has come to a point where FIL is scared to speak to me , if DH calls him to speak to him and I’m sitting next to DH , FIL would call his wife and give her the phone.

My FIL has never been creepy... he is extremely appropriate and polite.. he never has any conversations aside from small talk... things used to be a lot more normal before me and DH got together.

Furthermore, when I first arrived to the airport to visit them with DH, I did the polite thing of hugging MIL and her daughter and when it came to FIL I came to hug him (I didn’t know at that time it was an issue) and he suddenly shrugged away and said no no.. , when my FIl dropped us to the airport , and MIl wasn’t there... I basically just waved goodbye and got going... and then he said, oh come here I’ll give you that hug.

When I had a baby, he had to hide from his wife to call and see my baby via video call and tell me that he wishes me safe recovery..

It’s not like it’s bothering me, but I feel really judged for what should be normal..

To put things into context, my FIL told DH that he things his mum has developed insecurities and mental issues. He seems polite and respects that and doesn’t like to trigger it.. but I think her issues are translating to hostility directed at me as she constantly tries to convince my siblings in law that I have weird intentions to their dad...

Furthermore, due to her issues, I’ve had serious tension with her trying to absolutely control me and my life... DH father has been the only voice of wisdom who told MIL to leave us be.. I saw him as my only hope.. and I genuinely feel like this is why she is painting me as a weirdo to him...

Worthy of mentioning, she has also made my husband believe that it is disrespectful to her that he shall have a relationship with his dad that doesn’t go through her.. my DH is absolutely weird with his dad, if he talks to him on the phone he needs to first check that his mum is there. I can’t explain it.

So my question is... I’ve somehow just played ignorant so far. As I see this as in fact domestic abuse and control over her husband And I’m not happy being part of her gang. I pretend to be ignorant and just say hello to him and I don’t just ignore his messages.. he hasn’t done and never done anything creepy... and in Fact she is making this about my behaviour when the only thing I have done is say the polite hello to him...

Is it wrong that I just don’t see why I should respect her wishes I’m having no relationship with FIL if I’m being totally appropriate ? And that I don’t need her permission ?

'Jealous' woman

OP, what is the family background?

How does your DH react to all this?

Orange I don’t agree with the way you interpreted things but you do seem to being seeing it exactly from my MIL perspective, so perhaps I would like to know from your perspective what would you think is an appropriate interaction with FIL which would be respectful to MIL however fair on FIL?

Most of my interactions ARE with MIL still. She is never excluded, I don’t undermine her... I do however undermine her requests to involve me in her issues with FIL, I’m not a tool... and she isn’t a gateway? Am I seeing this wrong ?

OP are you from an Indian (or similar) background. The way you write about respect and being the right kind of woman doesn’t sound typical. (I’m Indian by the way.)
The family dynamics sound weird either way. The weird DH/FIL rship. Competitive and angry and now DH can’t speak to his dad without MIL permission. Wtf.
Obviously she sounds completely batshit and controlling but I don’t understand why none of you can sit down and have a frank discussion. Doesn’t your DH see this is all bonkers? Can’t you just say something instead of letting it fester.
There’s something I can’t put my finger on that’s just odd about it all (apart from it just being weird anyway)

I’m white, FIL is white, MIL is Asian.

Tbf I hadn’t had a frank discussion with DH about it as I found it embarrassing and wasn’t sure what part I had to play in this.

DH seems to have lost trust in his dad after his mums comments.. he only recently admits his mum is insecure to a mental level but it’s a sensitive subject

Part of me initially wasn’t sure if there was cultural background to all of this that I wasn’t aware of. But as I got to know them more after marriage, I realised this is all normal interaction in their books.. FIL talks normal to people, just shy... MIL very outspoken and borderline inappropriate with her jokes , certainly not traditional or conservative..

I’m the shy type. Keep to myself unless situation necessitates. I respect all her family values and pandered to all her wishes except this one as it was quite disrespectful of my wishes to stay out of their family drama and just be civil with everyone..

In all honesty I had second doubted myself for a long time and whether I was in fact supposed to behave a certain way to make MIL feel respected.. it’s onlt when I got to realise that she is like that with a lot of other things that I realised it wasn’t me..

My DH knows that his dad is controlled by his mum but I don’t think he gave enough thought into those kinds of details. It’s just the “norm” for him that everyone panders to his mums wishes and tiptoes and for a long time I just went along with things.. it’s just that as an outsider I couldn’t just get on with it when I was seeing something abusive... just against my nature. Otherwise I was just keeping my head down.

To DH, this is the norm

OP - can you clarify if by Asian you mean Indian/Pakistani or more SE Asia as in Thailand/China/Japan etc?

I'm not sure this is cultural but I may be wrong.

I've had similar from family friends (a woman marrying a man who was my DM's very close platonic male friend) - and subsequently - through work but with the male friend stoking the jealousy flames behind the scenes, his DW (woman see above) got very jealous of my DM and me but couldn't come out and say it! Turned out the male friend (we'd always known this) was/had been in love with my DM, had asked her out but she'd turned him down and they agreed to be friends, yet years later he carried a torch for her and mentioned it to my DBro and his DW when they visited them. awkward.com!

I really don’t wish to give More outing details about background as SIL Is on mumsnet

Lets assume for the sake of the argument that she is insecure about me or my mum.. that she has trust issues whether they’re valid or not..

What would be appropriate interaction with FIL so that I could keep things civil and not engage in any hostility??

I’m really not that gorgeous, neither do I behave like a seductress... do I owe her to stop having small talk and just not acknowledge his presence ? Shall I just give him a screw face when he says a super clean joke? Shall I never never acknowledge him? Would that be the right answer ?

Well actually if your SIL is on Mumsnet she may be able to work out who you are anyway!

Sounds like FIL is expected to 'toe the line' re the way he's spoken to by MIL and if your DH accepts this as the norm and doesn't want to rock the boat then maybe it's best left this way. You 'could' go against the grain and speak out to MIL, e.g. re her treatment of FIL but I doubt this would go down well with any of them. However, it may make her think about her behaviour and FIL may also think as to whether he wishes to continue to accept her behaviour. I know from my own relatives that one male relative was being cuckolded by the DW and only when he finally stood up to her (it was about an affair) that she stopped and actually changed her behaviour. No idea what was said behind closed doors though.

Good luck with this. Sounds like a tricky situation. If I were you I'd maybe just tone down the FIL/DIL relationship for now.

Or let’s say... let’s assume FIL had an affair... or entertain the idea that her close friend betrayed her with her husband once....

Is it my place now to boycott him having absolutely no background ? Just because she said so?

He has absolutely shown nothing but extreme respect, to me and his grandchild... my marriage was at a breaking point due to her intrusive remarks and DHs confusion, and FIL was the one to intervene to get some of my and DHs perspective across... to help us forge our own lives without her on our case.. hence my respect for him.. he doesn’t always do that though he just takes a back seat... but in all honesty, he has behaved in anything but a creepy way and has been very tactful.

He has defended my marriage to his son when she was going completely batshit.. he wasn’t always nice to me, made mistakes in agreeing with her at times without even getting to know me... but when push comes to shove he was fair on his son and went against her wishes...

So yeh he definitely doesn’t have any crush on me or mum, he just sat down applauding her in the past when she was being batshit.. but let’s assume he does so this conversation can flow to the direction I’m trying to get at.... given the worst possible scenario, what would be appropriate interactions around him?

OP reread what CantStopMeNow said. This is how to handle it.

Your MIL does not deserve ANY respect. She's a very toxic person, and her behaviour is not due to anything you have done. Stop trying to analyse her, and treat your FIL civilly, as you have been doing.

I've got no idea what Orangecookie is going on about. I really can't understand how she's completely twisted what you've said, to imply that you're the one causing this. You're not, so pay it no mind, and stop trying to explain, they won't change their mind.

Get the books by Susan Forward called Toxic Parents, and Toxic In-laws, for you and DH to read. You also need to speak to DH about this. He's your husband, you shouldn't be too embarrassed to discuss anything with him, and it involves his mother, and the problems she's causing.

She sounds like a nasty piece of work, from what you've said about how she talks to and about people, and you. Next time she fat shames you, point it out to your DH, and ask him if he thinks that's appropriate.

Maybe it's because you stand up to/disagree with her?

". MIL said you won’t want to go with him, he will make your shopping trip hell... to which I refused and said no it would be fine as it’s just a 5 min journey and he is like a father figure. "

I find that an odd response from you-about the father figure? Where was your husband?

There could be a few reasons-
He has had affairs in the past
You look like Pam Anderson
He fancies you and she knows it

All these point to insecurity on her part
But I think constantly telling her you view him as a father figure is a bit weird. Just act normally and ignore her strange behaviour

You need to call her out on it. All of you have been allowing this to continue.
The next time she says something ask her what her problem is and why is she so mistrusting.

My mil was quite similar with fil in the early days. Now fil and I rarely speak.

If fil was in another room and I went in for something she would immediately come to the room. There was one occasion where mil and I were in the living room and she went out side for a cigarette. Fil was in the kitchen. I went upstairs to the toilet. I heard mil come in walk in to the living room see I wasn’t there and then go straight in to the kitchen to see if I was in there with him. There was one occasion he was in the kitchen fixing an appliance and I was washing up, we were both not speaking, just getting on with our task with our backs to the door. I heard her walk in a stand there silently, listening and watching. I was cringing.

I spent about eight years trying to win her over and in the end I just thought ‘fuck it’. When I stopped fawning over her our relationship fell apart and we don’t see much of fil now.

You just concentrate on you.

Your MIL is an insecure abusive bully.

Orangecookie was really talking a lot of nonsense.

A mother who doesn't want adult child to speak to his father without going through her has serious issues.

Anyone who thinks her behaviour is normal, has their own issues too.

I'm not normally one to confront, but I find this so weird I couldn't let it go and would tackle it head on with MIL, citing all the incidents you've mentioned.

Quite honestly I'd find her insinuations insulting.

My Dsis MIL was very jealous of the relationship she had with FIL and they were divorced. The truth is her FIL is friendly and everyone likes him.

"if DH calls him to speak to him and I’m sitting next to DH , FIL would call his wife and give her the phone. "

What??

Your MILs behaviour is disgraceful. Treat your FIL the same you would any other person your are fond of(which you obviously are). If she tries to shame you, turn it on her...tell her she's being ridiculous and quite frankly, highly insulting to you.

Do you think maybe in passing in years ago he remarked what a beautiful daughter his friend had. Like a genuine innocent comment.Then it got awkward as you got with his son?

That being said, you don't have any rights to this man as your 'father figure'. You have no rights to his time or to his attention. I think it's creepy that you want that from him.

What the fuck are you talking about? OP's not said anything about expecting "rights" over her FIL. Her MIL wants her to slag off her FIL in front of him, and OP quite rightly, doesn't want to do this.

You're as deluded as Orangecookie!